Technology
868 X-59 Supersonic Aircraft
In episode 868 of the Airplane Geeks Podcast, the team discusses the end of an era for Seat Guru, recent developments with the Lockheed Martin X59 supersonic aircraft, and Boom Supersonic's ambit...
868 X-59 Supersonic Aircraft
Technology •
0:00 / 0:00
Interactive Transcript
spk_0
This is the Airplane Geeks Podcast. We aim to educate and inform you, explore and expand
spk_0
your passion for aviation and entertain you a little along the way.
spk_0
In the news this episode, it's the end of an era for Seek Guru. Actually, it's the
spk_0
end of Seek Guru. The first flight of the Lockheed Martin X59, what Boom Supersonic is doing,
spk_0
a jet-blue flight makes an emergency landing, competition for a new Navy jet trainer,
spk_0
and Indonesia gets its first Airbus A400M. Also, Brian Coleman talks with Brett Snyder at the 2025
spk_0
Apex show, listener feedback from the global certification of Chinese commercial jets.
spk_0
It's all coming up right now.
spk_0
Welcome to the Airplane Geeks Podcast. This is episode 868 of the show where we talk aviation.
spk_0
I'm Max Flight and with me is first David Venderhuff. He's our aviation historian from the American
spk_0
Helicopter Museum. Hello all, sorry I missed last week, but you know, and today we're suffering
spk_0
from daylight savings time. We really need to get rid of this nightmare. I agree. I agree. I
spk_0
think there have been efforts to try to get rid of it in the past, but nothing has succeeded.
spk_0
It is kind of amazing that nobody in their right mind likes it. I have yet ever met somebody who
spk_0
actually appreciates going forward or backward. So if you're out there, send us a message. So we
spk_0
know at least one person approved. Okay. Also with us is our main man, Micah. Hey, I'm here and
spk_0
I'm actually happy to be here because we're here an hour later and an hour earlier than we would
spk_0
spend less than a full week. It's an hour different. I have to say that for this. Yeah, we're here
spk_0
an hour earlier than we would have been. Are you sure? Yes. Okay. I'll take your word for it.
spk_0
Spring ahead to fall back. I'm confused. I'm always confused. Rob Mark is off this week. He's got
spk_0
some some business to attend to. So we are without Rob this time. So it's the three of us.
spk_0
And we're going to jump right into some some of the aviation news from the past week.
spk_0
First one comes from one mile at a time.com. And Seat Guru is no more. Now probably most listeners or
spk_0
at least those who travel frequently or have in the past frequently commercially. No Seat Guru is a
spk_0
site that presents seat maps of most aircraft types for each of the airlines. You know, that's
spk_0
you or you still let you get in there and look at the seats and look at the specifications,
spk_0
the locations and make decisions about where you'd like to sit on the flight. And Seat Guru goes,
spk_0
they're older than we are. We're we started in 2008. Seat Guru was launched in 2001. And subsequently
spk_0
it was acquired by TripAdvisor in 2007. But since sometime in 2020, there have been no updates to
spk_0
the seat maps, which really lessens the utility of the of the whole thing over time. And as I
spk_0
mentioned, Seat Guru was acquired by TripAdvisor and they just it hasn't been a focus apparently.
spk_0
So now if you go to Seatguru.com, you get a message. It says Seat Guru is closed down. Please
spk_0
visit TripAdvisor to plan your next trip. It gives you a link to TripAdvisor, which doesn't offer
spk_0
the services that Seat Guru once did. Rest in peace, Seat Guru. You know, I used the Seat Guru for a
spk_0
long time. Would recommend it to people and and it was great. But actually it was pretty much once
spk_0
TripAdvisor bought it. It started going downhill with all sorts of advertising and pop-ups and all
spk_0
sorts of terrible things. So I switched over to AeroLopa, which I put a shortcut on my phone too. So
spk_0
which is a similar product, but it wasn't quite as good as the original Seat Guru. So when I read
spk_0
this article, I read about a couple of other similar sites and one was Seat Maps. And that looked
spk_0
pretty darn good. So I put a shortcut to that on my phone and that will probably be my my new
spk_0
recommendation for travelers that want to know what the best Seats on an aircraft are.
spk_0
And there's a couple of others as well. There's expert flyer and you can also find some information
spk_0
about Seats at award fairs. We'll have links to all of these in the in the show notes so that you can
spk_0
take a look and you know see which one sort of fits with how you like to investigate seat options.
spk_0
Hopefully you'll find one that's that works for you. But I think yeah, as you mentioned Mike,
spk_0
I think none of them are quite quite like Seat Guru. Yeah, no, nothing is that I have found as
spk_0
as good as Seat Guru was in its heyday. But AeroLopa, a lot of people like that, it shows the seat
spk_0
manufacturer. So if you're interested in that, you can tell who seats they have on that particular
spk_0
aircraft on that for for that particular airline. You can find out the the pitch, the the seat width,
spk_0
even the recline, recline angle by class of service for for many of these. And it has information
spk_0
that you'd want to know things like connectivity type and seat power with the in flight entertainment
spk_0
is like in no, these are the kind of things that if you're evaluating flights on well across
spk_0
different aircraft, different airlines or different aircraft within the same airline if you
spk_0
have options for different flights at different times, this kind of information could be important to
spk_0
you or at least part of your decision as to to which which flight you pick. And it's especially
spk_0
true on a long haul, you know, when you're flying 10, 12, 15 hours, you want to know what kind of
spk_0
seat you're sitting in and make a decision in terms of comfort levels, not just price. Yes,
spk_0
yes. Of course, when I was before I retired when I was working, when I was traveling extensively
spk_0
internationally, I usually didn't have a choice. And I think it's true many corporations that have
spk_0
relationships with particular airlines so that if you're traveling to Asia, let's say, or to Europe,
spk_0
the airline that I was flying on would kind of be predetermined by the company so I didn't get a
spk_0
choice really of what to pick. But certainly if you're flying recreationally or a vacation or whatever
spk_0
personally on your on your dime, there really is a lot of information that you may want to look at.
spk_0
To make your decision. So yeah, these kind of sites help. All right, another story. This is from
spk_0
AP news. NASA takes one step closer to launching quiet supersonic jets and we've talked about
spk_0
the Lockheed Martin X59, which comes out of the skunk works. And this is the aircraft that is,
spk_0
well, they're doing this in partnership with NASA to investigate the impact on the public of
spk_0
supersonic booms, particularly a technology that reduces the volume of the supersonic boom. They
spk_0
call it a thump or they suggest that it will be a thump. And this aircraft, the X59, it's just
spk_0
completed its first flight. And it was a flight from the skunk works facility. That was it.
spk_0
US Air Force Plan 42 in Palmdale, California and landed at NASA's Armstrong Flight Research Center
spk_0
in Edwards, California. Lockheed Martin says the quote X59 performed exactly as planned.
spk_0
I'm not sure I ever encountered a first flight that wasn't a complete success.
spk_0
But Lockheed Martin says that was the case here.
spk_0
weren't there some major issues with an F-16 David where, or was it the F-18 that kind of went out
spk_0
of control? The F-16, its first flight was four days before its first flight.
spk_0
Oh, right, right. It was supposed to do a high speed taxi and it actually had a flutter.
spk_0
And basically the the answer to the flight test was to take off and orbit the pattern and land.
spk_0
But that was technically it's only a high speed taxi flight. Its first flight was like four days later.
spk_0
So, so yeah, there have been quite a few of those kind of things. You could also say the same
spk_0
thing about the huge Hercules where it, you know, the Spruce Goose had a first flight that really
spk_0
was supposed to be a high speed taxi test. So we'll see. But the X59 is not necessarily an
spk_0
attractive airplane unless you like needles. It's very pointy. It is very, very pointy. And the
spk_0
supersonic thump is designed so that the fuselage is designed to reduce the pressures on the
spk_0
on the fuselage. Now they had an F-5 demonstrator that had a modified nose 15 years ago or so that
spk_0
that was flying around the start to just kind of test program. But what makes this really long
spk_0
nose really interesting is there is no forward view. It is all done by a camera. If you look at the
spk_0
nose, you'll see a bump. And basically the pilot who's in it is flying via a video camera so they
spk_0
can see out front and around the sides of the aircraft because the visibility is so reduced because
spk_0
of the basically the nose is another 15, 20 feet ahead of the cockpit. So visibility is interesting.
spk_0
There's not a lot of wing services. It's really a long pointing needle. If you thought a
spk_0
F104 was pointy or actually the aircraft that this most resembles is the X3 stiletto which was
spk_0
from the 50s. And that aircraft had serious fluttering issues but it was a long pointed. It was
spk_0
a long time before the aircraft was so unstable flying but we didn't have computer technology like we do now.
spk_0
So this is kind of the son of the stiletto or the grandson of the stiletto but it'll be interesting to see
spk_0
what they're going to do with it and eventually they're probably going to use this like they were with the F18
spk_0
doing super sonic passes over cities so that we can eventually reduce the ruling that says you
spk_0
cannot do supersonic flight unless you're a military aircraft over overland which is why the
spk_0
Concord always took off and flew immediately over the ocean on the east coast because that's only
spk_0
what that's the at the point where they could accelerate to because they were not allowed to make a
spk_0
supersonic boom over overland so that's where the X-59s going. Congratulations to NASA and the
spk_0
Skunk Works and guess if there's one aircraft company that never fails on its first flight it would
spk_0
definitely be the Skunk Works. Well you know the side the picture of it we that we have is from the
spk_0
side and it looks just like an arrow and you know what Groucho Mark said about an arrow. What?
spk_0
He said time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
spk_0
I haven't seen that was Groucho. Yeah it's Groucho. I haven't seen anything from him
spk_0
any old movies or anything from him in a long time. Yeah and one of the photos of this X-59
spk_0
in the show notes and when I look at that shape I think the the thing that occurs to me is
spk_0
how does that scale up to something that could carry the significant number of passengers.
spk_0
You know I have trouble imagining something of this shape that's large enough to do that.
spk_0
How long would that needle nose have to be in order to accommodate that? Well I think
spk_0
I think that's part of the I don't want to say this is kind of the absurd but I think they're
spk_0
basically going to start to figure out how they can aerodynamically reduce it that nose but
spk_0
I mean it's it's definitely a different approach but like the Concord the Concord's nose had to
spk_0
bend down when it took off in land so you know maybe like now that we've got folding wings on
spk_0
triple-7s maybe after the aircraft lands the nose folds parallel like a radar dish on an F-15 or an F-18
spk_0
pulls parallel to the to the fuselage you know from a certain point breaks so that you can taxi it
spk_0
or I don't know I mean that's just speculation but I mean that would be one of those things where
spk_0
after it lands it bends it back along the fuselage and it's not that very wide at that point so we'll see.
spk_0
Now in this first flight they did not fly this plane supersonic that that is yet to come there's
spk_0
obviously a flight test program that is just starting now that's going to include the NASA and
spk_0
Sconquarks. Of course the other entity other organization with thoughts of supersonic more than
spk_0
just thoughts is boom supersonic and they are you know they are marching along they're they're
spk_0
claiming first flight for the overture the full-sized aircraft for 2027 and they're looking for
spk_0
certification by 2029 which which feels like a pretty compressed timeline. As you may know we've
spk_0
and we've talked about this that boom was unsuccessful in getting one of the major engine manufacturers
spk_0
to build an engine for the the overture the logic I think on the part of the engine OEMs was that
spk_0
this really doesn't represent something of volume that would cover the development costs of
spk_0
of a new engine so boom supersonic is designing developing their own well with a lot of help
spk_0
and that's the symphony turbofan engine that's what they call it the symphony so
spk_0
manufacturing of some of the components in validation is actually taking place now
spk_0
at the at their Colorado research and development facility and boom supersonic is hoping for
spk_0
full-scale engine tests next year in 2026 that seems you know a little optimistic and of course
spk_0
boom's approach to the sonic boom issue is different than what we just talked about with the
spk_0
X59 managing the the boom they are calling it the boomless cruise capability which we spent
spk_0
some time in the past describing how this works but it's it's fairly complicated but essentially
spk_0
you use software in an autopilot to fly the aircraft supersonic based on environmental conditions
spk_0
so that the the boom doesn't doesn't reach the ground no interesting interestingly enough I mean
spk_0
we we are talking about flying supersonic over the continental U.S. I mean the regulations are
spk_0
going to have to change right and thinking about it tonight we were I'm thinking about all of the
spk_0
years we've been doing and now that Max and I Max Trestcott and I are doing it talking about
spk_0
regulation over at the UAV news talk I'm not sure how quickly the regulation is going to catch
spk_0
up to this technology I mean the technology might be there I mean NASA's doing it so that they
spk_0
can prove to the regulatory agencies that they can do it but I mean regulation is going to be one
spk_0
of those really giant hurdles it might be the technology will be there but that hurdle never comes
spk_0
so overtures got a major way to go besides getting an aircraft to conflying getting aircraft to
spk_0
conflice supersonic I mean they're going to have to get permission from the regulatory places to
spk_0
be able to fly the aircraft to make it economically viable and who knows how long that will take
spk_0
yeah that's an excellent point David and like you say we sure we sure saw that with the development
spk_0
of drones and how many years it took and is still taking the regulatory agencies to be able to
spk_0
accommodate that that kind of technology and create the the rules that are applicable and that
spk_0
maintain a safe airspace so yeah it's a slow process for sure but I think it will also depend
spk_0
on who the regulatory agencies report to at the time because some administrations are friendly
spk_0
to business than others and some administrations are more concerned about environmental rules than
spk_0
others and so it will make a big difference as to when this all happens yes I think you're right Michael
spk_0
all right moving on and we have a night from CNN and and and Micah there was an issue with a
spk_0
jet blue flight yeah it was a jet blue flight 1230 was flying from cancun to to Newark when they
spk_0
had a sudden drop in altitude now and it wasn't just a sudden it was a hundred was a hundred
spk_0
foot drop in seven seconds that's a lot and they diverted to Tampa Florida where Aaron Apple
spk_0
bomb was waiting for them no but there were 12 people injured and and taken to the hospital it was
spk_0
a very difficult thing and and there's some concerns to what caused it because it didn't seem to
spk_0
be any turbulence or anything like that it seemed to be a flight control issue and the FAA is
spk_0
investigating it as this was an Airbus A320 and there have been some other issues with with Airbus
spk_0
that were similar where there was some flight control problems where although there's some
spk_0
the systems are quite redundant I guess it was 30 years ago the Airbus there was an A320
spk_0
elevator issue that the whole pitch system went went berserk and caused this was back in the old days
spk_0
when Northwest was flying and it had they dived a few hundred feet without any command from the
spk_0
pilot so they're they're really looking into this very seriously and they got they were close
spk_0
enough to an airport to get down pretty quickly the folks that were taken to the hospital they
spk_0
were taken with non-life threatening injuries and reportedly they were all all released
spk_0
this happened a few days ago as we record this and there really isn't a lot of information
spk_0
about this incident out there publicly available yet at least not that not that we could find so I
spk_0
mean it we don't know of those that went to the hospital how many were or cabin crew how many were
spk_0
passengers it sounds like in a situation like this they were probably injuries to to those who
spk_0
were not belted into their seats I would I would imagine but I don't think we really know the details
spk_0
yet no it just said that there was two two children and twelve adults and they were taken to the
spk_0
hospital in Tampa and they've all been discharged already so that's that's all we know so they were
spk_0
quick discharges and that that's a good sign speaking of jet blue there was an article in aviation
spk_0
A to Z United Airlines CEO aligns with Trump i's jet blue merger question mark the article that
spk_0
mentioned that Scott Kirby who of course is the CEO of United Airlines was at a White House
spk_0
function or something alongside JD Vance and the Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy and
spk_0
he was voicing his strong support for reopening the the U.S. government obviously the
spk_0
government shutdown is continuing to impact those that are deemed essential employees
spk_0
like TSA and air traffic controllers but are not not receiving pay and the situation is kind of
spk_0
getting worse and worse so he was emphasizing Kirby was emphasizing that this needed to be
spk_0
addressed pretty quickly but others were maybe trying to read into this situation whether or not
spk_0
jet blue airways jet blue is it's got some financial issues and the the merger with spirit
spk_0
airlines was blocked but some speculate that jet blue their assets the planes the New York the JFK
spk_0
slots the employees might be a growth opportunity that's safe for for United so some people are
spk_0
thinking that well by i don't say curing favor but by appearing to support the administration in
spk_0
this way that he may be looking to the future maybe the not too distant future where United maybe
spk_0
as could goes to the government and looks to to do a merger with jet blue well united has already
spk_0
formed an alliance with jet blue where you can earn rewards points united rewards points or jet
spk_0
blue rewards points by flying either airline and this is a similar alliance to what was broken up when
spk_0
another northeast alliance came together with the jet blue and american airlines but the the
spk_0
FTC broke up that that alliance saying that it was anti competitive this alliance has gone through
spk_0
there hasn't been any talks about it but united also they have their big hub is newwork and they
spk_0
have anything or very few going out of JFK jet blue has all of t5 at JFK united would like to get
spk_0
in there also united would like to form a bigger presence in florida they don't have a whole lot of
spk_0
presence in florida and jet blue has most of fort water deal so this would be a wonderful thing for
spk_0
united and scut curvy is a very good administrator and he does his job really well for the company and
spk_0
it would make sense that this is what he's working toward by pulling all that together yeah
spk_0
this will be interesting to to watch and i'm not being critical you know my comments i'm not
spk_0
being critical of curvy by any means just observing what other observers have observed or what
spk_0
they speculate all right another item and this comes from the us naval institute the t45
spk_0
is the jet trainer that the navy has been using right david but getting a little bit long in the
spk_0
tooth and there are some maybe some alternatives for the undergraduate jet training system program
spk_0
for an aircraft that i remember being like having that new car smell it's hard to believe that
spk_0
it's a 40 year old aircraft you know there's a lot of memes out there that talk about this is what I
spk_0
think about a 50 year old aircraft and you're looking at something like a p 51 and really what
spk_0
you should be looking at is a f 15 or f 16 with with things like phantoms being 70 year old aircraft
spk_0
but the the t45 was built by mictonald Douglas so that should tell you how old this is
spk_0
mictonald Douglas hasn't been around for a long time and it's based on the hawk trainer the
spk_0
british airspace hawk trainer although it had quite a few modifications because it was designed for
spk_0
a carrier so where a hawk has a single wheel the t45 has major structural improvements for carrier
spk_0
takeoff and landings but it's getting the over time those training aircraft have gotten long
spk_0
into tooth because they're training aircraft they get more bumps and bruises because they're
spk_0
being flown by people who are learning so the navy is trying to come up with a replacement for it
spk_0
interestingly enough neither one of the replacements will be carrier suitable the navy has come
spk_0
to the conclusion that the training for carrier approaches etc would be done by the squadrons or
spk_0
the where the squadron rags after the training primary trainings over you'll get your wings of gold
spk_0
but then you'll learn to fly out on an carrier as you go to whatever aircraft you're assigned so
spk_0
replacement air group which is a rag would be like an f 18 rag so you go from the the new trainer to
spk_0
the f 18 and that's when you'd actually do your first carrier landing so the m346 which is beach
spk_0
crafts proposal is based on an Italian aircraft and the s and c freedom trainer is based on a
spk_0
aircraft that was done for the last training program that the for the air force so both of these
spk_0
aircraft have been around here in the United States they're both basically proofs produced overseas
spk_0
and are based on overseas technology not unlike the t 45 but they are going to provide basic training
spk_0
but they will not provide carrier training now beach craft says that they can convert their aircraft
spk_0
up to a grade where if the navy decides that they can they want to do carrier landings again in
spk_0
primary and basic jet training they can do that I don't think the cs and c aircraft will do it but
spk_0
it's going to be interesting naval aviation as far as training goes is going to be different you know
spk_0
there's always been the saying that the reason why navy leaders have wings of gold is because
spk_0
they land on an aircraft carrier where the air force doesn't doesn't that's why theirs are silver
spk_0
but it's going to be it's going to be interesting I don't know how far along the navy is
spk_0
basically this sort of is in a preliminary rollout and with the red hawk which is the air force
spk_0
new the new air force trainer that's had all sorts of delivery issues from Boeing and that hasn't
spk_0
gone into into full production yet so the navy ones will probably be a long way down the line
spk_0
and there hasn't been any talk about a joint trainer across the the air force in the navy
spk_0
that actually occurred with the t6 texan 2 which was the primary trainer the differences the navy
spk_0
in the air force feel like they have different needs for training for introduction jet training
spk_0
I haven't seen where Boeing has proposed their product for the navy we'll see it but yeah there's
spk_0
no commonality just like there when you went to a jet trainer for the air force you went to a t38
spk_0
versus the t45 for the navy in the Marine Corps so that's always been sort of a different past but
spk_0
what we'll see if they come out with a joint trainer yeah because the the request for proposals
spk_0
isn't even out yet although they I think they expect that pretty shortly in the next couple of
spk_0
months yeah that would require the government to be open yeah I guess all right let's see Micah we
spk_0
also have well this is another military aircraft of a completely different kind going to a completely
spk_0
different place yeah the airbus a400m is just been delivered to Indonesia and it was just a press
spk_0
release not so much a news story but I thought it was interesting because I've well I've seen the
spk_0
a400m fly not all of us have it's a amazing aircraft and it was contra-rotating propellers are
spk_0
just wonderful to watch and you know the airplane's been around for a long time and it's just from
spk_0
my perspective doesn't seem to be doing incredibly well I think there are 130 in service and I think
spk_0
maybe a hundred and seventy-eight on order and airbus designed it to kind of be in between to see
spk_0
130 and the C-17 and be able to sort of take the place of both and it just hasn't it's a great
spk_0
airplane don't get me wrong but it just hasn't met those those requirements so much but in Indonesia
spk_0
in Jakarta they they took delivery of one and what I think is really great about it is there are
spk_0
also going to be able to use it for firefighting they have a roll-on roll-off modular firefighting kit
spk_0
that allows it to be converted into a water bomber capable of dropping 20,000 liters what would
spk_0
that be about 5,000 gallons more or less a lot a lot of water in a single pass and that's really
spk_0
going to help in Indonesia in terms of dealing with the the wildfire sort of widespread all over
spk_0
there some pretty tough terrain and Indonesia has a second aircraft that is yet to be delivered those
spk_0
the order is for for two aircraft I love this airplane because the the turbo prop engines
spk_0
they're Euro prop TP 400-D6 and they're each of them is rated at 11,000 horsepower David I
spk_0
understand they're the most powerful turbo prop engines in operational use in the western world
spk_0
so I guess that means maybe Russia's got something that's that's bigger I believe the
spk_0
contra-rotating turbo props on on the TU-95 the bear bomber are still more powerful than these but
spk_0
yeah so it's a very impressive aircraft but it's not a 130 it's all I'm going to say I think it's
spk_0
but it's like a 130 on steroids so it's four engines the diameter of these propellers is
spk_0
17 and a half feet yeah it's it's but you know Micah you like the contra-rotating propellers
spk_0
and I just aesthetically it just sort of drives me nuts yeah because it I'm used to
spk_0
one two three four starting and all of them starting in the same rotation when I watched my good old
spk_0
130s to start up seeing the contra-rotating propellers it's really it's just it's very different
spk_0
you know it is just it's just very it's unique it's definitely unique yeah so what happens in this
spk_0
in this case is that the two engines on each wing and the propeller that's closer to the fuselage
spk_0
rotates so that its blade tips move downward between the two engines on that wing while the
spk_0
outboard engine rotates in the opposite direction so they're both sort of rotating towards the
spk_0
center you know between the two the two engines and there are there are reasons to the one to do
spk_0
that not that I can describe it very accurately but it reduces the asymmetry the aerodynamic asymmetry
spk_0
and which can cause yaw and yaw problems and uneven lift distribution especially at low speeds
spk_0
well I assume it's the same reason they did it on the P38 which were also contra-rotating
spk_0
yeah in different directions yeah yeah yeah most twin engine aircraft have I mean OV-10
spk_0
towards the same way it the other thing I've heard and I vaguely remember this is it does provide
spk_0
more thrust because the the air is going into one thrust vector out back between the two engines
spk_0
as the two engines become in phase it increases it increases the thrust because they're going
spk_0
they're not fighting each other as they're coming through to that point on on the center of the wing
spk_0
the I think this comes from air bus but this the symmetrical air flow improves wing lift by
spk_0
about 4 percent it low speeds so that's significant but by doing that the wing and the flap system
spk_0
can be lighter and simpler right that reduces reduces weight reduce structural loads reduced
spk_0
vibrations reduce noise inside the the aircraft and allows all that allows for an 8 percent smaller
spk_0
horizontal tail surface so there really is a lot of impact that comes from you know this kind
spk_0
of an arrangement there's a video I figured I had to find this and I found a great video
spk_0
it's an old video but it doesn't matter it shows an air bus a 400m aircraft starting up
spk_0
and you're looking at the airplane did on the nose and the video we'll put the video in the
spk_0
in the show notes and if you watch that watch the rotational direction of each engine as they start
spk_0
up one through four and when they start to idly don't be fooled by the strobing effect because
spk_0
the strobing effect makes it looks like you know they're moving in all kinds of directions but if
spk_0
you stick with the video when they spool up the engines it just gets very very dramatic so it's
spk_0
a pretty impressive video and I'm sure that most of our listeners have have seen what one looks like
spk_0
but if you haven't you kind of have to imagine a C17 and a C130 having a baby
spk_0
yeah with big honking yeah propellers yeah composite propellers eight bladed propellers each
spk_0
now our friend Brian Coleman who Micah hosts with on the journey is the reward podcast and Brian
spk_0
previously the associate producer here airplane geeks and co-host well he was at the 2025
spk_0
apex show and he met Brett Snyder there just kind of ran into him cranky himself and the conference
spk_0
apex is the airline passenger experience association and they have several conferences they hold
spk_0
each year but as I mentioned Brian and Brett ran into each other at the show and Brian recorded a
spk_0
fairly brief conversation with Brett and they talk about the well at the time they then
spk_0
upcoming Dorqfest which has already been held probably would have been great to play this before
spk_0
Dorqfest 2025 but listen to it and maybe it will inspire you to attend next year so why don't we
spk_0
listen to Brian and Brett it's amazing who you run into at trade shows and here I am standing at a
spk_0
booth up comes walking next to me mr. cranky fire Brett Snyder so great to see you again
spk_0
yeah you too right good to be here just scavenging for food at the ifs of
spk_0
so any surprising vendors here for you I have not actually spent much time walking around at all
spk_0
yet I have only been here today but I do think it's actually really interesting this is my favorite
spk_0
part of this is to see all the different foods they're trying to put out like there was this one
spk_0
that they've got these shelf stable little mini pickles in a bag and I mean it was delicious
spk_0
I like it I just like seeing what they're coming up with it's fun yeah that's so bad huh
spk_0
now I have to apologize I am not going to be at this year's cranky Dorqfest and you've no idea how
spk_0
upset I am over this yeah that's unacceptable completely unacceptable except I'm going to be
spk_0
leading the tour of listeners in South African Zambia do I get a pass acceptable all right next year
spk_0
take pictures we need proof but next year come back and we will we will welcome you that yeah okay
spk_0
good good good looking forward to it so anything special happening this year at Dorqfest you know we've
spk_0
got the ramp visit in the morning and and how many people are you expecting to have there
spk_0
well we've we've had the cap it at 500 and we've got 100 wait lists so we will see this definitely
spk_0
is going to be the largest Dorqfest ever at 500 I don't know I mean I don't count every time but
spk_0
the thing is this year we actually will know pretty well because for the first time we're not
spk_0
handing out raffle tickets you have to sign up in advance and so people that are on the
spk_0
the list for the raffle items which we have a ton as usual we will know actually how many people
spk_0
are today so we'll see but yeah we have you know something like 600 something people right now
spk_0
signed up that say they'll be there that have raffle tickets I have absolutely no idea how many will
spk_0
show up and I have no idea how many will show up it did not sign up in advance so hope but it will be
spk_0
a lot of people that I know right but this is really I want to say crazy event but it's not crazy
spk_0
this started with you just wanting to go look at airplanes and have a burger in and out and for
spk_0
this I don't know cranky Dorqfest is just really a meet up at the park across the street from in
spk_0
and out watch airplanes and it's turned into this global event truly a global event because people
spk_0
fly in from around the world it is true we do get people flying from around the world and it is
spk_0
really gotten a lot bigger since we started working with NYC aviation and their spot LAX weekend
spk_0
and so now we make sure we do it at the same time so you know they have Friday night I have Saturday
spk_0
morning Saturday midday they have Saturday night they have Sunday morning so people can come in and
spk_0
get a full weekend of geekiness and really make like a crazy trip out of it so it's been great and I
spk_0
love working with those guys and it's just it's been a lot of fun and so I'm hoping we have a couple
spk_0
surprises this year I think LAX they're going to have a couple of aircraft visitors that will be
spk_0
able to crawl around on oh wow and I'm told we will be getting a special livery from one airline so
spk_0
we will see but it's fun to do that kind of stuff and then I look forward to collapsing on Saturday
spk_0
afternoon it is a bit of work I'm sure a few to put together and again I'm just so upset that I'm
spk_0
not going to be able to be there this year but I kind of do it with a good excuse I think yeah I
spk_0
I think you're all right I don't think I don't think you need to have any promo this year I think
spk_0
it'll be just fine yeah down in the south out again Brett so great running into you give a plug for
spk_0
cranky concierge actually one of the guests on my trip use cranky concierge to put together his
spk_0
itinerary to to get there so yeah so it's it's nice that we are co-branding co-working together
spk_0
co-promoting yeah that's great I'm glad you're able to help them hopefully they don't need us
spk_0
during their travels they were there if if they need us but hopefully all goes smoothly and you
spk_0
guys have great time yeah so any other thing cranky that listeners should know about oh boy I
spk_0
don't know we're working on working on the cranking network awards for next year so that's
spk_0
February and Phoenix again yeah I wish I knew someone where I could get on a list to show up at
spk_0
that but it's really just aviation industry people that are invited to that right journalist
spk_0
aren't really allowed yeah we have a couple of maybe I'll call them trusted media but you know
spk_0
yeah that's not me well it's not more on the enthusiast side or the more casual side it's more
spk_0
but it is I mean it's meant for the people that are at the airline network planning teams
spk_0
and so we want them to feel comfortable so we don't have a ton of vendors pitching them on things
spk_0
you know we have a handful of sponsors but we're really trying to make them be able to enjoy it
spk_0
and so we don't want to overwhelm them with a million vendors and people trying to get floats and
spk_0
everything so so yeah we try to keep that one pretty tight sorry no I just from a personal standpoint
spk_0
I would just love to be there be a fly on the wall not even report anything I just think as an
spk_0
event that would be an awesome event to attend it it is fun it is fun but we kind of unless you
spk_0
get a bigger venue we're kind of at our cap right up with the number of people so basically I
spk_0
need to get a job as a network planner then I could attend yet well if your airline decides to send
spk_0
you because they get a certain number of people at their tables and then they they choose who's
spk_0
going to come so yeah so go be a network planner then you'd appreciate yourself with whoever is
spk_0
intelligent of sending someone out for it yeah you're really making this hard for me I know I know
spk_0
I'm yes I am I'm saying now one other bit of promotion I want to encourage you to make you're
spk_0
now in the podcasting business it's true actually I shouldn't say now in you've been doing it for a
spk_0
while we have been we've been doing it for over a year now but the airshow podcast uh which you
spk_0
can find at the atshowpodcast.com or anywhere on any of your podcasts listening thing in the
spk_0
series yeah actually the reason I came down here today was primarily because we had an interview
spk_0
for the airshow we did with the sun country CEO Jude Bricker oh nice so that will hopefully be
spk_0
coming out soon we have to go through the recording figure it all out make sure it's going to be a
spk_0
good fit for the airshow but that that's uh that maybe is then I came here this morning and now I'm
spk_0
hanging around waiting for Scott Kirby to talk it to yep yep that is planning on showing up for that
spk_0
as well it'll be interesting yeah and then there's uh Courtney who causes some trouble every once in a
spk_0
while Courtney causes trouble always yeah we do thinking network awards and then cranking
spk_0
network weekly we do those together um he is not here no wonder I haven't run it yet but yeah
spk_0
no no he's he's around uh still doing his thing still visual approaching everything so
spk_0
visually approaching yeah visually yeah it's so great running into you here thank you so much for
spk_0
taking time being on the show yeah yeah my pleasure thanks for asking this since we can't do it at
spk_0
dork fest this year yeah and again congratulations on yeah over 600 people from what started off as what
spk_0
just you and your son or was it just you oh my son wasn't born this day this was uh yeah I don't
spk_0
remember it was just sort of I put it out on the blog and said anyone ever shows up yeah I don't
spk_0
I don't remember the full roster there but it was not a lot it was not a lot now it's just chaos but
spk_0
you know it's it's just fun that's the point this is not I don't make any money from this event there's
spk_0
no sponsors um this is really just an opportunity for all of the geeks to unite and have a good time
spk_0
and that's it well you say there's no sponsors but yeah you put in a fair amount of work because I
spk_0
how much work it is to get companies to donate product and you get a fair amount of really good donations
spk_0
yeah we we do um they're not sponsored and some of them don't even show up they just send
spk_0
they send to be a part of it yeah really some do show up though Alaska will be there this weekend
spk_0
I am told they will be handing out pod juice to people nice uh we'll see hopefully that comes
spk_0
afroish and there are any logistical issues but but yeah the airlines love the participates because
spk_0
it is just a pure joy fun event so you know we get things from tickets to miles to models and
spk_0
other goodies and a few years ago Oscar handed out in an outparkers get do that he was in
spk_0
town for a USC football game and I think his I think his comms people railroaded him and said you
spk_0
have to go to this thing he at least appeared to have a very good time he was happy oh sure yeah
spk_0
I think he's happy but you know we also like Andrew waterson is there most years hope you're
spk_0
there this year from Southwest there are people that show up but they're not they're not there to try
spk_0
and make a big deal make a show out of it they're trying to come and have fun and just talk to people
spk_0
and have burger which is part of the fun and it's a fun event so people should go to
spk_0
crankyflyer.com but I don't actually have a dedicated page for it they're just
spk_0
but they go so people should go to crankyflyer.com to learn more by the time this air it'll
spk_0
already be over but for next year they could go to the website and find out more when it actually
spk_0
ascended and it's always eight weekend in September it is always a Saturday in September we are
spk_0
trying to keep it the same weekend every year if we can I always get together with New York City the
spk_0
NYC aviation people and then we figure out if that we can work but we really like this weekend we've
spk_0
been trying to settle on it for the most part we hope we can stick with it but stay tuned we
spk_0
announce it we try to get it as soon as we can yeah and I just screwed up with my
spk_0
dude so my bad yeah well I started next year next year Brett thank you so much for being on the
spk_0
show again and we get a great run easy here at the cell yeah you too thanks for having me on
spk_0
I think there's a well I don't know a relatively short list I guess of events that you have to attend
spk_0
Oshkosh is one I mean everybody has to attend Oshkosh at least once everyone has to attend
spk_0
Sunnfun I would say at least once cranky dorkfest it's a completely different kind of a thing but
spk_0
I think that's that's on my list of must attend events I don't know do you guys have any others that
spk_0
you would put on such a list well it used to be the Udruhazi Center once a year too that was a big one
spk_0
it's not happening quite the same way anymore and then of course the the
spk_0
spurwick spurwick farm pancake breakfast and flying yeah yeah yeah I guess I should throw in the
spk_0
Vanderhoof International Air Show in Vanderhoof British Columbia that's another one we have to go to
spk_0
they we you know we we we have to do that if for no other reason then we can say we did it yeah yeah
spk_0
I I really should go to the air show named after me um that's appropriate well then there's Halloween
spk_0
helicopter weekend oh yeah that's not yeah that's great yeah that's great you
spk_0
was that an exciting event David this year it was good I mean it was it's it's more it's become more
spk_0
member friendly um but basically we had 200 people show up in cost with little kids in costume
spk_0
and we had various events at the museum you know in the the museum's decorated it's got inflatable
spk_0
and we've got skeletons and I mean it's a really good time um I guess I'm just kind of over it
spk_0
because I spent all weekend putting away all the Halloween stuff for next year
spk_0
but it's a it's a it's a good event um likewise coming up we actually have
spk_0
um while it's not necessarily aviation involved we have a enormous model train weekend
spk_0
the weekend after Thanksgiving Friday Saturday and Sunday we have approximately
spk_0
20 different organizations that are model train clubs that bring in their layouts so the museums
spk_0
filled with trains um so that's that's ironically one of the busiest weekends we have all year long
spk_0
partly because the holiday partly because of what the event is and then of course a couple
spk_0
weeks later Santa Claus arrives in the Robinson R-22 you know to meet everybody so but and then
spk_0
and then we go dark for a while which is nice that we don't have lots and lots of events rest
spk_0
over the over the winter well there are also other you know international events I mean we think of
spk_0
you know U.S. events that are kind of on the most attend list but there's other international events
spk_0
that farm bro paris can they go um re out yeah farm bro paris re out um I'd like to go to Dubai
spk_0
Dubai yeah I was just gonna say Dubai Singapore Singapore yeah I've been I was at the Singapore air show once
spk_0
so let's make a list and we'll have all of you listening help us make the list why don't you
spk_0
send us an email and tell us what your bucket list is right right the must attend aviation events
spk_0
that that you would add to such a list email it to us the geeks at airplane geeks.com and we'll
spk_0
we'll collect those and see what we've got and yeah maybe we'll discover some you know that we
spk_0
weren't aware of or didn't that don't think of is in that in that way that we should add to our own
spk_0
personal bucket list all right meantime let's see Micah what's what's new with you well you know we
spk_0
just heard that interview with Ryan he was on his way to South Africa well this week we recorded
spk_0
the first of probably three shows about his trip to South Africa he's back and he was in South
spk_0
Africa and Zambia and Botswana and Zimbabwe with with a few of his listeners that showed up he had
spk_0
great time and but the bad news is he was supposed to fly over at Ethiopian Airlines and then
spk_0
fly back on Ethiopian Airlines but apparently there was a little issue like Ethiopian stop service in
spk_0
the Newark airport and they rebooked them into from in from out of Washington IAD I was in
spk_0
Dallas but they forgot to connect him between Newark where he was flying into from LA and Dallas so
spk_0
anyone just didn't work out so he ended up getting things changed and flew over and united
spk_0
but then today I had a wonderful fight I'm driving up the airport road by MacJets by the MacJets
spk_0
FBO and I saw what I thought was a Q400 you know or maybe a twin-out I wasn't sure it was a
spk_0
it was a big twin-engine airplane but I couldn't see it from the road and I pulled into the parking
spk_0
area and I couldn't see it from there and then I pulled into the lot for MacJets there was a C-21
spk_0
and I had never seen a C-21 in person before and that's an Air Force rear jet
spk_0
so I went inside to see if I could find a picture of that big twin with had the engines running and
spk_0
I still couldn't get a picture of it but but the crew was there for the C-21 so I talked to
spk_0
them for a little bit and they were just up here on maneuvers out of St. Louis I think Scott Field
spk_0
and and they were just here for lunch and they were flying back but it was already four o'clock and
spk_0
they got delayed and and I got a great picture of it that we'll put in the show notes but I said
spk_0
that you know I was a surprise to find them and I saw that other twin I didn't know what it was
spk_0
and they said oh that's a C-146 oh my god and I can't even really see it now I was not familiar with
spk_0
C-146 will found and found out that it's a a Dornier 328 that was the military uses for
spk_0
special ops but I don't know much about it and David I don't want to put you on the spot but
spk_0
do you know anything about it offhand can you say what it's used for anything?
spk_0
It's used for deployment of special operators it's part of the the SOC fleet special operations
spk_0
there's quite a few of them and they are designed not to look like American Air Force aircraft
spk_0
you know if they are the interesting thing about the Dornier is you can get that aircraft in
spk_0
either turbo props or jet engines which is it's probably one of the only aircraft like that in
spk_0
the world but there's a jet engine version and then there's a turbo prop version and when you
spk_0
want to be inserting special operators into countries and you do not want to be make a major
spk_0
production of it you send in something like a wolf hound which looks like a generic civilian
spk_0
small airliner and doesn't really have much of an ID ID but so but we've been flying them for
spk_0
probably since the beginning of the beginning of the war on terrorism when we had expanded our
spk_0
special operations group well you know it's funny that you said that that you know they
spk_0
don't come in uniform so to speak because I had no idea that it was an Air Force aircraft until
spk_0
the crew of the C-21 told me in the two of those aircraft were operating independently I guess
spk_0
don't know don't know yeah yeah maybe not maybe not interesting all right I ran across something we
spk_0
were talking about boom supersonic earlier and of course the XB1 is boom supersonic's one third
spk_0
scale demonstrator that they've flown and Microsoft has just announced that the XB1 is going to be
spk_0
available in Microsoft flight simulator so you're actually going to be able to fly a boom supersonic
spk_0
XB1 if you use Microsoft flight sim which I don't so I can't offer any more than just than that so
spk_0
if you are a simmer and you do take advantage of this and fly the XB1 when it becomes available
spk_0
let us know love to hear what your feedback is on that so we have some listener mail we we heard
spk_0
from one of our longtime listeners who I sort of took us to task a little bit on a couple of things
spk_0
he was well sometimes we end up talking about one company or one airplane or one something
spk_0
endlessly it seems and often that's because it's you know it continues in the news Boeing is of course
spk_0
a a big example of of that recently but there have been others in the past if you they've been a
spk_0
long long time listener you'll remember we were we were talking about the Air Force tankers
spk_0
constantly David's rolling his eyes because he got as tired as everyone did but yeah sometimes
spk_0
we just end up talking about companies like over and over and over since it's kind of hard to
spk_0
Boeing is like I said is the 737 max slash Boeing saga has gone on for for a long time so I know
spk_0
sometimes sometimes we get tired about talk tired of talking about the same thing also so I can
spk_0
understand that but you know we're covering new stories big and small and sometimes when the
spk_0
stories are big and they continue they need to be reported yeah also we we generally try not to
spk_0
introduce things like politics because we're all we're all tired of that and we you know enjoy
spk_0
a politics free zone and you all tell us that all the time we stray into politics too much
spk_0
we get lots of comments from folks we try to we try to avoid that we also try not to generally
spk_0
interject too much of our personal opinions but sometimes that's impossible and we are an opinion show
spk_0
we are an opinion show and everybody has one right everybody has an opinion and sometimes people
spk_0
you know don't like the opinions of someone else and I kind of view that as well that's
spk_0
that's sort of the way life works not everybody thinks the way you do or enjoys the things you
spk_0
enjoy or has the perspectives that you do or that we do or that someone else does sometimes that
spk_0
comes out we try to minimize that but we we're not maniacal about minimizing that there you know
spk_0
opinions will come out and people may agree and or disagree with them if you disagree with them
spk_0
we'd love to hear hear about that and we'd even go for other and and say that if you really have
spk_0
a strong different opinion on a topic we talk about happy to this could be a dangerous offer
spk_0
but happy to give you a platform happy to have have you let us know what your opinions are and
spk_0
really their pass it on or we may even ask you to come on the show and express a different viewpoint
spk_0
we don't want to go too far down that road because we don't want to be just this controversial
spk_0
podcast we'd like to to be kind of open friendly and let's all just have a good time we like airplanes
spk_0
and you know let's talk about airplanes so yeah sometimes we're successful and sometimes we're not
spk_0
I know that's that's that's kind of beating around the bush well this listener is a long time
spk_0
listener and a friend of the show and some of us know him and he wrote in to let us know that he
spk_0
just wasn't happy listening to some of the things that we've been talking about when you know we
spk_0
been talking about Boeing and we've been talking about airlines making big mistakes and
spk_0
having an attorney legal liaison with us and and he wanted to tell us and I appreciate it because
spk_0
he is a good friend of the show yep yep we heard from well actually another long time listener
spk_0
Patrick Wiggins he sent an article from clean technica trust in transition colon why global aviation
spk_0
is starting to fly on Chinese certification and I remember years ago we were talking with Richard
spk_0
Abelafia on the show he's our he was our guest he's actually been a guest on the number of episodes
spk_0
and you know the great analyst and we were talking about the the Chinese development of
spk_0
airliners first the regional jet maccomaxi 919 then ultimately the wide body and talking to Richard
spk_0
about what it would take for airlines across the globe to start to be interested in these Chinese
spk_0
airliners and actually buy them and operate them and one of the things that he talked about was
spk_0
this whole issue of certification the world kind of revolves around certification by the FAA
spk_0
and yasa right the European regulator obviously a lot of countries can't stand up their own
spk_0
regulator and so these two the European and the US regulators really act in that capacity for
spk_0
much of the world well the Chinese commercial aircraft being developed third being certified by the
spk_0
China civil aviation administration CAAC which that's not accepted around the world in general
spk_0
and one of the things Richard said was that that kind of global recognition that the Chinese
spk_0
aircraft are of you know sufficient quality or liability you know have all meet all the standards
spk_0
that would be typical of the two regulators FAA and yasa and so what we see in this article by
spk_0
clean technical is that brunai has announced that it was going to recognize the airworthiness rules
spk_0
of the Chinese civil aviation administration the CAAC that's kind of a small step but it's you
spk_0
know it's it's a first step this could be you know the beginnings of something that will let the
spk_0
Chinese commercial airliners become more of a dumb and not that become more of a player on the
spk_0
on a global scale because right right now they're not they've only been sold I think exclusively
spk_0
within China and given given currently the troubles with the FAA here in the United States
spk_0
and the Boeing certifications and such it's not surprising the Chinese China is trying to get
spk_0
their foot in the door to become the standard eyes the standard for regulatory aircraft so
spk_0
it's another advancement for China to get recognition in the world but yeah it's I'm sure the time
spk_0
will come that their recognition will be just as equivalent to iisa or the FAA yeah right China plays
spk_0
the long game the very long game and I suspect that I don't know 20 40 60 years from now I'm not
spk_0
sure how long the landscape from an aviation standpoint will be very different than than it is now
spk_0
to watch this space for more you're I'm mute Micah I was going to say in 20 40 60 years everything
spk_0
changes you look back 20 40 60 years things are different you look ahead 20 40 60 years things
spk_0
are different so you can't be wrong with that prediction right no yeah you can't be wrong
spk_0
all right let's let's wrap it up thanks for listening to the airplane geeks podcast you can
spk_0
find us at airplane geeks.com show notes at airplane geeks.com slash 868 that's the episode number
spk_0
as I mentioned earlier our email address is the geeks at airplane geeks.com and let's see
spk_0
David Vanderhoof tell folks where they can get a hold of you. You can get me at the American
spk_0
helicopter museum like we said earlier or you can find me and we're trying to do this once a week
spk_0
I don't know how good I'm going to be at it but UAV news talk with Max Tresscott where we just
spk_0
recorded another episode last week and we'll be recording another one this week talking about
spk_0
UASs and electric aircraft very good and our main man Micah how about you?
spk_0
well you can find me with Brian Coleman on the Jones Reward podcast and of course I'm on
spk_0
xTwitter and Blue Sky as main fly and I'm Max Flight find me at the website 30,000feet.com
spk_0
that's all words written out and look for airplane geeks on Blue Sky.
spk_0
All right so please join us again next time as we talk aviation on the airplane geeks podcast.
spk_0
Bye everybody. See you real soon. Thanks for listening.