Entertainment
NASHVILLE NOW: Hardy Cheated Death & Lives to Tell the Tale
In this episode of 'Nashville Now,' host Joseph Fudak welcomes country music artist Hardy, who shares insights into his new album 'Country Country' and discusses his fascination wi...
NASHVILLE NOW: Hardy Cheated Death & Lives to Tell the Tale
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We're good. We are so good that we are back for a new episode of Rolling Stones
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Nashville now. I'm your host Joseph Fudak, senior music editor Rolling Stone.
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Country is here. Nashville is now. Thank you all for joining us this week. We have had
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a homedinger of a week in Nashville. It was our semi-annual installment of the Rolling
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Stone Riders Room. What we put on with our friends over at Dickle Whiskey. If you have
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not been out to Cascade Hollow here in Tennessee to tour the Dickle Distillery, highly recommend
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you do that. And then maybe one day you'll be lucky enough to attend a Riders Room with
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us. Let me just give you a little history about it because this is why it's important
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to talk about this week's because it was so freaking fun. But our track record is really
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darn good. We started a couple years ago with 49 Winchester. Of course they blew up and
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are now about to go on tour of arenas with their church. A couple months after that we
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ended up out in Palm Springs right before stagecoach for a Riders Room. We had Stephen Wilson
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Jr. Charlie Crockett and Drayton Farley. That was badass. And then we celebrated the 10-year
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anniversary of Rolling Stone Country at the Nashville Palace here in Nashville with
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Maggie Rose, Brent Cobb, Silver Rada and Taylor Honeycutt. This year this Riders Room
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installment featured three artists that I am so hot on right now. They are the future.
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Is Tyler Halverson from South Dakota. He is a bit of a pot head country singer. When
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he worked up a grew up working cattle. But it's not a cowboy singer so to speak. But he's
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just terrific. Check out his stuff. We'll talk about him again in a minute. Braxton
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Keith from Midland, Texas. Just one of the smoothest crewners today. Really excited for
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where he's going to go. And then Caitlin Butts. Caitlin Butts broke out with that song.
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You ain't got to die. It would be dead to me on TikTok. She was in the pages of Rolling
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Stone, a three-page feature that Marissa Armos, a frequent guest here on National Now, wrote
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for us about Caitlin. So we set up shop at Skinny Dennis in East Nashville and it was a banner
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night. We had a star-studded group of attendees. Nikki Lane was there. She recently got married
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and her husband, an amazing de-name Wade. You may know who runs the Desert Five Spot. He was our
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DJ for the night. We had Maggie Anton in the house, Gabriella Rose, who just performed with
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Zach Brian at Born and Raced Fest. We all know what happened at Born and Raced. It was great. A lot
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of fun. And the songs were just terrific. Tyler Halverson did Beard Garden Baby. Braxton Keith
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did this song, Cozy. That is just so good. We chose it to wrap up the night. And then Caitlin Butts.
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She was so terrific. You ain't got to die. It would be dead to me. It was just had the crowd.
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And a frenzy. And she was really charismatic performing it. Got me thinking a lot about murder
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songs and death in country music. So I was thinking this morning when we were getting ready to film.
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Like the long history in country music of murder songs and death songs. He stopped loving her today.
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George Jones. I mean, that's regarded as one of the greatest country songs of all time. If not
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the greatest country performance of all time, vocal performance by George. It's about death. You
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stop loving her today. Whiskey Lullaby by Brad Paisley with Alison Kraus. That's a little more
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modern one. Live like you were dying. Tim McGraw, man. What a carpe diem song that is about
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how you would proceed if you got that that terminal diagnosis of whatever may bring you down. That's
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a hell of a song. But you know, there's a lot of songs about killing. One that we were playing in
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the cabin this morning to kind of like set the mood. This is if you haven't heard it, you got
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here at Johnny Paycheck pardon me. I've got someone to kill. He just lays it right out there in the
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the title of that song. There's no beating around the bush, no subtext, no, you know, subtle
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illusions. He's just saying, hey, somebody cheated. I got somebody to kill. Who else has died?
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Goodbye, Earl. Goodbye, Earl killed somebody. The chicks killed somebody in that. That's a classic
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one. Miranda Lambert, Gunpowder and Lead. You know, she kind of revived the revenge songs and the
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murder songs. And then the other murder song that is kind of having a renaissance right now. I know
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a lot of you have been talking about it on TikTok. It is the night the lights went out in Georgia.
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People were debating what the song is about. Who wrote it? All these little things. So we'll just
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tell you. It was written by Bobby Russell and first recorded by Vicki Lawrence in 1972. She had
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a hit with it. And then it became a massive hit by Reba Mack and Tyre in 1991. And most recently,
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Briley King, the wife of Marcus King, she posted a video herself singing it on TikTok and it
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really kind of blew up and got turned on to a whole new audience. It's a great one, man. I know
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you all heard it by Reba. A lot of people learning about it from Briley King. Go back and check out
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Vicki Lawrence's original version. It's a country stone cold country classic, which leads us to our
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guest today. He has never met a song about death he didn't like. And he wrote a couple big ones too.
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Waiting the truck, a murder song that he sang with Laney Wilson. He also is known for songs like
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Quit, One Beer with Lauren Alaina and Devon Dawson, Rednecker. He has a song right out now called
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Bro Country. It is of course, Hardy. Born Michael Hardy, the pride of Philadelphia, Mrs. Cippy.
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He is here to talk to us about his new album Country Country. It is out now. Man, he does not shy away
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from that topic, the topic of death on this album. I think eight of the 20 songs he alludes to death
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or his own burial. There is a song called Everybody Does, which is like the great equalizer.
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In these divided times, he finds the one thing that we all have in common. And that's,
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we're all going to croak. It's not a stretch. We're going to let him talk about it. But it's not a
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stretch to say that he is fascinated by death because of his own near death experience.
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A few years ago, he was on his way back from a show up in Bristol and was coming through Tennessee
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on their bus. And the bus went off the road down in embankment. And they all went sideways, man.
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He'll tell you the story in his own words. But I don't think he's gone this deep on it before.
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We're grateful for him for opening up. He's on Nashville now. So Michael Hardy,
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Hardy's going to be here in just a few minutes. But right now, a little segment we call here now.
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Thank you, Catch Seacore for committing to the bit every week. We love it so much.
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And no particular order. These are the songs we think you need to hear in country music this week.
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Number five, Ben Gallagher. I'll take you.
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Number four, another Pennsylvania native. His name is Mike Miz. He is also a blistering guitarist.
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Check out this song called End of Your Rope.
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Number three, soon to be on the podcast, Marcus King, another guitarist. This song is called Heartlands.
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Our number two here now this week is Avery Anna. She is doing a gorgeous cover of Joan Bias' Girl
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of Constant Sorrow. And our number one here now. It's a new song by Marin Morris, Beat the Devil.
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My view gets shivered just on the side of my name. There's no one left to hide, but I like why you're dropping.
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The youth get picked and they'll never let our own game.
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Coming up next on Nashville now, our interview with Hardy.
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I'm at the writer director of Subtives DJ Diallo Rittle.
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And I produce her DJ songwriter and musicologist Luxury.
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And our show One Song is for all you music lovers out there.
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On each episode, we break down the stems and stories behind iconic songs across genres.
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The Peshmo, Death Punk, Delight, Dr. Dre, we do it all and I promise you, you've never heard
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Hey, this is Dan Nordheim, host of the documentary podcast Life of the Record.
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Join me as I interview the artists, musicians, and producers that were involved in the making of a classic album.
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The podcast includes in-depth interviews with the creators, who offer surprising insights into each
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Subscribe to Life of the Record on your favorite podcast platform.
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Hey, welcome back to Rolling Stones Nashville now, our podcast here. We are here with, um,
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man, a guest that I'm really excited to have in the Nashville now, Kevin.
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A man that goes by one name, it is Hardy. How are you, man? Dude, I too had a weekend of drinking,
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so I'm on like that two day hangover right now. The two day hangover, yeah.
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All right, man, the record is called Country Country with two exclamation points,
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exclamation point, exclamation point. So it's kind of like extra, extra read all about it.
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Is that, am I reading that the right way? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of what it was inspired by.
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The, uh, you know, I put it, putting out a rock record, uh, which I,
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I loved quit so much and, uh, but man, it, it just sort of rubbed a lot of my country audience.
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Or I wouldn't even say like my die hard fans were like, they're always just like down with it.
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Whatever it is, they're, they're like, okay, if this is what we're rolling with for the next,
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you know, six, eight months, this is what we get. Then let's do it. But that, I would say like my
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fair-weather fans do just destroyed me for like ever and just was like, this sucks. Go back to
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country. Because it was too rock-based. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and so this was, that title was kind of a,
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just my like little smart ass like, here's your freaking newspaper article headline. You know, like,
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in case what, in case you're wondering what kind of record is coming? Here's a, it's a country record.
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The number of songs with country in the title. Yeah. Yeah. There is a, a, a lot of them.
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A ponderance of them. Um, was, is that another way to say, hey, it's started, it started
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unintentional. And then when I look, I look down and I was like, oh, man, I've got like four songs
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that have country in the title. And I was like, let's make it eight or whatever it ended up being.
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And I'm pretty sure on the vinyl, we, we put, you know, the title, the obviously triteless
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on the back. And every, every time the word country appears, you make it really bold, you know.
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Yeah. It was like, it was, it was sort of a, um, just unintentional at first. And then the rest
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of the songs, I started really thinking of any country titles I could to, you know, just keep the,
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keep the train going. Yeah. Well, one of them, of course, is titled Bro Country.
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Is that a tribute to that subgenre? Is it, uh, and, uh, the funeral for that subgenre? I'd love to
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hear what your thoughts are on. Not a funeral. Not only only a tribute. I mean, if you read,
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if you read that lyric down like and just put, put the music aside, it's just paying an homage to,
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to that. I mean, um, it even speaks to in the bridge, which I always, the question I get a lot is,
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is there like, are you saying that it's irrelevant? But the bridge addresses that it talks about,
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like it says, I'm sure there's a shot. You'll always have a spot on the billboard country top 10.
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It was, it made such a profound impact that I feel like, uh, you know, whoever can,
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can occasionally drop kind of a bro song and it completely, you know, like work, you know, um,
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but it's just, it's speaking to how times are a change in, you know, for the first time. And,
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you know, I felt like my era officially feel like a sophomore or a junior at this point because,
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um, you know, like my crew was like Laney and, and Morgan and Erne and, um, Bailey, I would even
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put in my group Nate Smith in my group. Um, and but we all still kind of have, and we're all, I think,
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very unique in our own way, but there's still a very six one five, like, there's a Nashville thing,
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but I mean, there's a group of people that are coming up right now that are, that's just different.
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And it's, and people are loving it. And it is the furthest thing away from like, you know, like,
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rock and roll, sounding drums and stuff, the sack top, Jake Worthington, uh, Gavin Adcock,
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just there's a big like organic thing happening right now. And, and, uh, man, it's just,
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there's no denying it. And that's, that's just, that's what the song's about. And it could all co-exist.
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Totally. Yeah. That's what's, I mean, that's, thank God, you know, country, we've come a long way and
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that, you know, I guess in a way, it's always been like that, but, um, yeah, right now, especially,
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I mean, it's just so wide open. Like, it is so wide open. Really, ironically, the broke country era
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was sort of, it kind of went back down to here a little bit. And like, it was a very narrow lane
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to see, I mean, I remember like Tim McGrawl was putting out like looking for that girl and people
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are like, whoa, man, like, he's putting out like, bro stuff now. Remember that. Um, it was kind of like,
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that was the only way to really get to the, uh, you know, not the only, but, but it, the path to,
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to having a hit was, became a little more narrow than, but, no, it's wide open now. And I think
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it's awesome. Yeah. And it, it feels, you know, talking to you, man, it, it was pure for you.
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In that class, let's call it of what you just mentioned, um, Ernest, right? Morgan, like, you guys
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weren't chasing that sound. I think 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when FGL was popping off, right?
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And cruise was huge and all the song, everyone came out of the woodwork trying to find that. Yeah.
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Five, but what you have done is kind of expand the bro sound into something wider, right? It's not,
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and I think your lyrics speak to that. And you kind of nod to those lyrics in the bro country song.
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I mean, like, basically, I'm getting it wrong. I know, but it's like you'll always have a soft spot
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for, uh, pick up tailgates, tan lines. Yeah. Daisy Duges, you're that whole thing.
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Five. Five. Thank you. Right. Yeah. But that, that, that was okay. But you guys went into a
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different direction with it and made it more evolved it a little bit. You evolved it.
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Grady Smith, you know, Grady Smith, he, he once said that I, I hacked bro country and I was like,
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that's, I, I think that's a compliment. It's like decoded it, you know, to put it out in a different
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way. But that's, well, that's like, you know, the way that I learned to write songs, I,
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like, I was paying attention to a ton to like my, my most, like, uh, the most country stuff that I
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soaked in, like in a very condensed amount of time was from about 2000, a let 10 or 11 to like,
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when I started kind of writing with the people that I was like looking up to, if that makes sense.
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And that, that era was the really early years of, of like, bro country and, and so guys like Rodney
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Claus and Chris Tompkins, I would even put Casey Bethard in there because of air charge, not bro
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at all. But still a lot of what I soaked in, um, as a songwriter was that stuff, that language. And,
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and Rodney specifically was so good at, at making these long, at long, super wordy colorful lines
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about, but just calling a girl pretty, but it just being like, you got that, it would be like,
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you got them, and then it would be like seven adjectives and then eyes at the end of it. You know
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what I mean? And, um, I don't know. So, yeah, Rodney Clausen, yeah, Rodney Clausen,
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just soaking in a lot of that stuff and then sort of for lack of a better term,
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regarding tenting that in, in my own way. And yeah, and Joey Moy obviously, the architect of the
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whole sound, right? And he's a producer on this record. Yeah. Yeah. What, what, what kind of language
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do you guys speak together? Why is it? We speak in references like constantly in the studio. That's
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like the, that's an honestly like every musician, any Nashville session guy would be like, all you do
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is be like, make it sound like STP, but like, you know, but if freaking, you know, slash played it,
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that's a horrible example. But like, he and I just, we have such a similar taste of music,
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especially with rock music. And, um, we just understand each other's references so much. And, uh,
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I don't know, that just that, whether that happens in the studio or not, and we also, we've,
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we've cut like every record I've done together and I've sat in that room from, you know, 10 AM
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to 5 PM every single time, never skipped a session. And so he and I are very, um, if I hate something
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and we're an hour in and I'm like, not digging the way this is going, like, I don't feel, uh,
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uncomfortable to be like, dude, this sucks. You know what I mean? And, and he's the same way. Like,
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we're, we're just very honest. We, we want the best product and we've always just been very face-to-face
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with that. So, uh, our process is, it's really fun, but it's, it's just a, it's, it can be brutally
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honest sometimes. And, and from what I hear, Joey's the only guy I've ever been, you know, in a session
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with, but he's apparently really tough in the studio with, on everybody, I've seen it happen,
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but I respect him and, um, yeah, I, we just, I think just us being really, you know, close and
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being kind of able to be brutally honest with each other makes for, you know, I like your stone
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temple pilots, but played by slash because you basically described velvet revolver. What do you think
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about that? But yeah, but you said it was a bad example. And that's the best example. That is
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an actual example. Are you making that record next? Please say that. Yeah. Um, hey, Stephen Wilson
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Jr. is on this record. Uh, and I know he's out on the road with you and you guys have developed a
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relationship. Um, I just think he's so fascinating and important to the genre right now. What do you
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see in him? And an earnest too, because he's on here as well. He's in the bro country song. Um,
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what do you see in those artists in the way each approaches country music? Well, Stephen, um,
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I mean, it there, it's just very rarely I feel like in any genre, is there a band or an artist
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that you're like, nobody sounds like this person. And like if anybody tried to, they would be made
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fun of for sounding like this person. You know what I mean? Like, like, like, he's on a level of
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unique, like how primus is like, you know what I mean? Like you can't, you just can't ever, nobody can
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ever redo that. Um, he's just completely original, whatever your rock ability, crazy, whatever you
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want to call it. He's like an insane musician. Everything from his brand, which is very like
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aesthetically like similar to this room, you know, floral couches and and uh, shit like that. But
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that was the greatest compliment you could have given us. No, it is. It's a very similar vibe.
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We have the skull head and you know, and everything. His little studio, he cuts stuff in, looks
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a lot like this room. But um, I'm Stephen William, Jr. He's kind of counts. He's got it.
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Enough. But um, to just like his guitar playing and like his acoustic tone, everything is so
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doubted in. And so he's got the brand figured out, but he's got the music and the the uniqueness
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to match it. And um, yeah, when you said like important to the genre, that's that really resonates
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because that's that's, you know, important and also he's having success. He's not going to be one
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of those people where you're like, man, you remember so and so like they were so good and they never
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blew up. Like people are really resonating with him and how cool he is and how different it is.
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And I'm just, I feel like I'm just watching, you know, to be like just every night. I'm just like,
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these people are loving this shit, man, but it's cool. He's so talented and his story is crazy.
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And he's so, he's only human, I know. I think probably that's ever existed on the planet. That was
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a food scientist, a golden gloves boxer and now a successful songwriter and musician.
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It's the craziest thing, right? You guys just did hunger strike live, right?
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That's right. Yeah. Yeah. We own the fly too. Like he put out, he just put out a project. I think
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it's out. It's out. It's out. Like it's like it's and we just ran through it once in the green room
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and we never nailed it. And then it was like time to go like for me to get on stage and we were like,
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I will figure it out. Just kind of went out there and winged it, but it was good. It was cool.
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It was like a and we're just, it was like I won and done. Like we did it one time and,
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you know, a bunch of people are like, are you doing it again tonight and we typically do Father's
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on. But yeah, just the one time and it just sort of lives in that moment and that was it. It's
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cool. Did it go over well with the crowd? Did the kids know it? The kids don't, but the adults did.
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It was a 50-50, but we had a good time and it was just a cool moment, you know. That one was
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almost more for us than it was for them, you know. We both love rock and roll and yeah.
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It was a lot for me too, so thank you. Yeah. Of course. It was so good. We're going to get deep
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a little bit, so I hope you don't mind. It's good. But you sing a lot about death and even being
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buried on country country, there's a photo of you and a coffin in your camel, in your
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in your bottom lands, right? Yeah. That's correct. What about that topic
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appeals to you right now that you feel the need to to write and sing about? I feel like
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I've been thinking about this a lot because it's not intentional, but I have a couple different
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answers. Number one, I think that since I was in a tour bus accident a couple years ago,
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and I think just since then it's just been really like on the back of my mind, just like
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don't think that it can't happen whenever, you know, because it totally, it very much can,
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which is why most of the songs on this record that speak to mortality
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or half, whatever, there's a few of them that talk about
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what to do with that thought process, right? We're all going to die. Goodbye.
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It's either talks about like being proud of who you are and kind of going down, going down like
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that or like living your life and like going to go to Paris or freaking do this or do that.
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Live your life because we're going to die. And I just think that's a headspace I've lived in for
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the last couple of years because of because I was in a moment. It's the only moment I've ever had
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where I thought I was dead. Like I thought that I was going to lay there and die. So there's that.
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And then also the very last song on the record addresses that as well. And it just talks about how
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the world can't really agree on anything right now. Everybody does. Everybody does. And it's like,
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I want to write songs that we all can sing and that we can all kind of get along to get along with
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whatever. And so if death is only thing we all have in common, then then dammit. I'm going to
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that's if that's what I got to sing about, then let's do it. So that's the two sort of the two
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thought processes for this record. Okay. Michael, could I ask you what do you remember about the
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night of October 2nd, 2022? Man, we were coming back from Bristol and we were listening to
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Kendrick Lamar. I think it was like the new Kendrick record. We were on FaceTime with Morgan,
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my Tanner, my photographer. He and I were just sitting up at the front lounge and my bus driver
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pulled over on the side of the road and we were really close to town. We were like 20 miles from
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town because we just decided we were in Bristol and we were like, let's just Elvis out and get back
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so we can just like sleep in our own beds and not, you know, we had to wake up five in the morning,
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y'all y'all, y'all. So me and Tanner were just, you know, we stayed up listening to music,
spk_0
drinking a few beers, whatever this and that. My bus driver pulls over on the side of the road and
spk_0
I check our maps and I'm like, damn, we're really close to town. Why are we pulling over?
spk_0
And he he goes into the bathroom and stays in there. We, you know, that kind of was like, you got a
spk_0
pee and he was like, yeah, he goes into the bathroom and he stays in there for like five or six minutes,
spk_0
which is kind of a long time. You know, Tanner and I kind of looked at each other like, I guess, weird
spk_0
and he comes out and I said something to him. He didn't say, he didn't say anything, but he has
spk_0
Bluetooth thing on and sometimes like, he's on the phone, he's on the phone a lot, you know,
spk_0
just talking to somebody, whatever. So he sits back in the driver's seat and I put my head out
spk_0
there and I was like, you good? And he said, yep. I was like, oh, uh, how much how much longer do we
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have or something? And he said, yep, I'd like turn to Tanner and I was like, man, it's weird.
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Didn't really think anything about it. You know, he wasn't slurring or his footing, nothing
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crazy like that. Long story short, we got about two more miles down the road and he, um, he had
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either an aneurysm or a seizure while driving and we just barrel off down in this like bottom,
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like off the side of the road and the bus flipped over three times and we were Tanner was on the
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phone with Morgan. Morgan thought it was a prank. He thought we were pranking him and anyway,
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we were all knocked unconscious. I don't know how long we laid there. It could have been 30 minutes,
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it could have been 30 seconds. I have no idea, but I was the first one to wake up
spk_0
and the bus was like, it was insane. I mean, it went from like being a bus to like, it just
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looked like a movie set. It looked like a bomb went off in there. It was crazy how quickly it
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changed and sure enough, you know, I'm smelling gasoline and I've never been in shock before and
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shock is like really crazy because like I just was like, just convincing myself like this is not real.
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Like this is not actually happening. There's no way that I was just in a fucking bus, like a bus
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accident. That doesn't happen anymore to people. But anyway, um, I look at Tanner. Tanner is
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completely unconscious and he's so beat up. I thought he was dead and no one my tour manager
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at the time was in the back sleeping, but he was locked in the the the the bunk room because the
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doors were shut, you know, and I didn't hear him. So he must have been knocked out. My driver,
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Ricky was knocked out and laying in what was what was now the ceiling, but it was upside, we were
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upside down. Anyway, I crawled out. I know I'm very long-winded. No, go ahead. I'm going to tell
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I'm going to tell yeah. I crawl out of the front front windshield, which was busted open. Thank
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God, or we would have been actually stuck in there. And we were so far down this hill, the bus
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had gone so far down the hill that you couldn't see it from the highway. So all these trucks and
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cars were just flying by and I couldn't see us and I had a black hoodie with a big white circle
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on it and all I could think to do was take that hoodie off and wave like wave, you know, try to
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wave people down. And I did that for about 30 minutes and I could not get somebody to stop. So
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no cell phones at this time like nothing. Well, no glasses had fallen off. So I'm also blind
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as a bat. I'm also part of me was really scared to go back in there because I didn't I thought
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Tanner was dead and I just didn't want to like be around that, you know, so I was like I want to
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get people here to help before I go back down there by myself. But I eventually ended up
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Tanner woke up. He was screaming. Noah woke up and he was screaming. So I'll run back down there.
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And long story short, right around the time that I somehow know what my tour manager had gotten
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to the front lounge and you know, he's mangled up the beat up too and I was like we need a phone
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now and right when I said that, I mean right when I said that, his alarm on his phone was going off
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because it was time to get up and like, you know, because we were supposed to be back down.
spk_0
And it was in the rubble. But what's crazy is his his phone was in the bunk room and when when we
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saw it light up, it was all the way in the front lounge. I mean, that's how crazy the thing. So
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anyway, I grabbed it called nom on one immediately. You know, we had ambulances there and from there,
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you know, we were taking care of. But yeah, I for what we went through. So when I woke up,
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there's the bus windows are like, you know, like kind of long like this. And my head was underneath
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the top of the panel and I had to push myself out from under it. And I was like, if we would have
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slid like another foot, it would have cut my head off. And Tanner, so but I also all I had though was
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I broke my back and I had some staples in my head. But like that was it Tanner, my Tanner,
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you broke a vertebrae or right in the middle. Yeah, but you were able to walk up
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behind it easily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just because of the adrenaline. Probably. Yeah,
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and I really didn't have it was not a bad. It was not a bad. It was a fracture, but it wasn't
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like super, super bad. Could have been though. Yeah, it could have been easily. Tanner broke pretty much
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every moment in his body. But he had a he had a bone sticking out of his foot. No one was pretty much
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okay, nor it no one was banged up. But long story short, Ricky had a brain tumor that he didn't
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know about. And Ricky. So and as a result of that had was having an aneurysm and that's why he was
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acting strange. Yada, Yada, Yada. And they found it and he lived about a year and he died from that
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brain tumor. But that's it, man. That's the whole story. I know that's a long story. No, no, I
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asked and I grateful to you for sharing that and reliving that because you know, we all kind of
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think about car accident and you just brush it, brush it aside, walk away. I I rolled a mini van
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once like a work van. I was doing some work. Got T-bone and in that experience, they say it's
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the to me anyway, it was the sound, not the motion and stuff. That was the thing that still
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freaked me out, right? And I hazard to guess that might be the same for you. Yeah, it's like reminds me
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of like a really, really intense like wooden roller coaster, just so much rattling. It's like the
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rattle. Yeah, it was hard to get on. It was hard to fall asleep on a bus for a long time. So you
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the PTSD and anxiety lingered for a year. Yeah, pretty much had like a mental breakdown around
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the same time. And you canceled some concerts, right? Did you deal with that? Like what were you
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experiencing? I just had never, my whole my whole life I had never had. I thought what I had
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was anxiety and I kind of now realize that was more of OCD, where like, oh, if we don't get here on
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time, something bad is going to happen. You know, that type of stuff is like that's an OCD sort of
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warrior thought. I never had like what I now know is like real like the real heavy like
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um, walls are close or I'm not safe. I don't even know how to describe it, but just there were
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just days that I um, I just had started having panic attacks out of nowhere. The weather was changing
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like it is right now. And I was just doing a lot of association that I didn't know, you know,
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because it was fall. And it was like a year to the day. Um, that kind of thing. And I finally just
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said I need to go get I need to go do like an intensive therapy thing and get this figured out
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because I this it was pretty bad. It was pretty horrible. And did therapy help? Yep. Yeah. I did
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a there's a really um, I did two things. One of them sounds crazy, but I swear I think it worked,
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but one was I did just regular old therapy and and you know, we talked about everything and about
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all my other, you know, in my past life, any other trauma and how I learned that like I've been
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alone for a lot of stuff like I woke up alone in that thing and like even in the hospital bed,
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like I was I was very alone. And anyway, um, and I but just learned how to tell myself that I'm like
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safe, you know, and all that. But I did what they call EMDR therapy, which is basically like a
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or for whoever's not familiar. They have these like it can be in different ways, but I held these
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two like buzzer things and it would when and I would like tell every detail like I did. And then
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she would stop me and then hit the buzzers and basically it accesses these two parts of your brain
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and it re, uh, it re compartmentalizes really bad memories into more like logical places in your
spk_0
brain. Uh, and that helped a ton because the more I did EMDR, EMDR the less because there's a lot of like
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very um, acute details that I don't remember now or have a hard time remembering in a good way.
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That EMDR sort of helps filter out or flush out and from from your past life or from the accident
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from the accident from the accident. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that helped a ton. And then um, yeah, just
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just a shit ton of therapy dude. It's written. Hey, congratulations, man, because that's a great
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thing to do. I, I'm really bolstered by guys like yourself and Luke Combs talking so openly about
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mental health lately, especially in our genre, I say our genre being here in Nashville where,
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you know, there's so much of a tough guy image sometimes the outlaw image, right? All that stuff.
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And for like Luke to talk about OCD and you to talk about this, it's encouraging, man. Man,
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thank you. I, it's just, you know, after this whole experience, I just, I got no shame. It was,
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it was so overwhelming for me that like, I just don't, I really just don't wish that on anybody.
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I know there's people, I know, you know, specifically for me, you know, uh, men have a harder time.
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It's not, it's, it's more taboo for men to speak out on it. And I know that there's guys out there
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that are just eating it every day and it's like, that's not good for you. And it's just that can lead
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to way worse things. So, uh, man, just talking about it, just seeing it there, doing something.
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I just do it. You still go something. No, no, I haven't been in, uh, probably a year, haven't really
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needed it. But it's there if you do. Sure. Yeah. And my therapist was great. And we just, you know,
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it gets to a point where I'm like, I'm good. I'm going to skip this month. I think I'm in a good
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spot. And then, you know, but I, I haven't had, you know, I was having it on stage. My heart rate
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would get up and I would associate that with that kind of adrenaline rush. And I'd go right back
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there and I'm not safe. I'm having a heart attack. I'm going to die. Just the most wild thoughts ever. Um,
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but yeah, but it hasn't reared its head. That's great. No, not in a long time. I, I'm going to ask this
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because you did, you canceled, uh, you're up this year. I did. Was that related to that? No, no, it was not.
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Okay. That was, uh, that was, um, based on what was going on in the world and, and, uh,
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a decision I wanted to make for my family and for, uh, my band and crew to be safe.
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Personal safety. Yeah. Um, I'm going to ask you a question about boy genius. Are you aware of
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boy genius? Yeah. Do you know that Julian Baker from the Bridges, Lucy Dawkes? They are fans of
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yours. Yes. How did you, did you see that video? I think my sister sent me and she was like, do you
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know if Phoebe Bridges is? And I was like, yeah. And, uh, yeah, that was really cool. That was like,
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um, it's, it was not expecting that at all. But they, the things that, the way that they described
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a lot of that was like just super special and, and, uh, just really cool. I think Julian was
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talking about it. The, just, it scratches like a, a, a weird itch in her brain or whatever.
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And I love that kind of stuff. Man, that was cool. That is the, uh, mashup we don't know we need yet.
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Dude, I'm here for a man. Um, I do want to ask you something though, man. Um, we talked about
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Morgan. How do you think Morgan? How do you think the way Morgan was treated in the press changed
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the course of his career? You want, I mean, I can give you, I can tell you what I, what I honestly
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think I would love it. I think that a lot of people, um, I think that a lot of big corporate,
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right? Whatever you want to call it, big companies were really hard on him early on. And, um,
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I think that a lot of, a lot of it is that people feel like they, they owe him because
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he made a mistake and, uh, um, especially the big one that we all know. And, um, I just think,
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first and foremost, he's incredibly talented. He's an amazing singer. If he, he's an amazing
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songwriter. And if he doesn't write the song, he cuts amazing songs. He's a great performer.
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I don't know. I just think that people, I think, uh, that people, especially the people that
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are can't like gatekeepers and people like radio, like I heart and people like that, that, that,
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you know, they opened it back up, they opened back up for, you know, for him because they banned,
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they banned him for a while. They literally banned him from the radio. Um, I just think that people
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came to their senses and they were like, we made a mistake and the sky was really good and,
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and uh, maybe we should give him a chance. And I think the floodgates just opened.
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And you think that kind of buoyed some of the success even some of it, some of it, not all right,
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right. I think that, uh, that a lot of it is just some of it. There's just so hard to draw a direct
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line to, um, Nashville just needed that guy for whatever reason. And now the world, which is,
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maybe him being one of my best friends. I just, it's so hard for me to process how big he is sometimes.
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But, um, I think that when it comes to like his, when he was his return and how big that was, um,
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again, you know, dangerous having 30 songs on it and like every song on it being amazing and
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everything else. But I think a lot of it was just a lot of platforms and people that were like,
spk_0
man, we were a little too hard on the sky. I think we should show him some love and, and, um,
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yeah, that's just, that's what I think. And no one could knock those albums out right now. It's
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no matter how many people put out albums with multiple tracks or whatever he is still,
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yeah, it's unbelievable to watch the effect on that he has on pop music. I don't know. Not even
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country. It's crazy. You know, I, every, I think I credit, um, Morgan for, uh, all the,
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all the pop people want to come do a country record. I think that they listen to his record and
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it's records and it's so good that they're like, okay, then I want to do this. I mean, he's,
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changed it. It's, it's just, it's insane to watch. Yeah. Um, one of the songs that really
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resonated with me on, on your new album, on Country Country is Buck on the wall. I grew up in a
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hunting family too, uh, my grandfather's rifle, all of those cliches or tropes or traditions,
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whatever you want to call them. Um, and when I heard that song, I thought it was really touching.
spk_0
And it's a way for a guy, you know, we're talking about men before and therapy and whatnot, but
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it's a way to honor your grandfather by saying there's going to be damn well. Sure, there's going
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to be another buck on that one. Could you talk about grown up hunting and, and how you weave it
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into your songwriting too? Yeah. I mean, it's a huge, it's just a massive part of who I am. Uh,
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I grew up hunting. I killed my first deer. Uh, when I was probably seven, I was with my grandfather,
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my dad was at a Mississippi State football game. And um, he just, he, you know, my dad, I owe a lot
spk_0
to my dad, but my grandpa really, uh, I just my, my, uh, a lot of my early memories of hunting
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were with him and he would, he would love to take me like, and as early as I can remember,
spk_0
four, five years old, before I could actually shoot a gun or anything, I, you know, just go and like
spk_0
sit with him or whatever, but so that song, so Buck on the wall is literally completely accurate.
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And what the cool thing about that song is I wrote, we wrote that song after my grandpa father had
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passed, uh, but talking about the house in the woods and yada yada yada, he built this deer camp,
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for our family, like in 1989. And uh, so up until the chorus, everything about that was completely
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true. And then, um, the chorus is about how like to honor him. I'm going to sit in the woods all day
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until, until I, you know, I bring one home for him, you know, to honor him. And I went out and I
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freaking did it this year, 10, 30 in the morning. I was freezing my ass off and stayed was, was, you
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know, usually that's kind of like, okay, like it's time to go, you know, in the morning time, but you
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can never tell, but, um, and I was sort of getting, I was actually on the phone with Joey Moe,
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because I was like, he called me and I had my, my earbud in and, uh, I was like, hey, and he was
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like, what's up? And I was like, I'm, I'm getting ready to pack all my stuff, climb it, climb down on
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this tree and, uh, he'd start talking and I was like, hey, hold on a second. And I had a, I had
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this good, a really good deer while I'd walk in there. And I was like, I think I'm about to shoot this
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deer. I'll call you back. And, uh, anyway, but man, and it was just so serendipitous and I got to take,
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I took it, took that deer into town and show my grandma and, you know, she was just like, pop would
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have been proud. And it's, but it completed the story of that song after we wrote the song. It's
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like inception or something, you know? But, uh, man, what a cool moment. I've, I've got that deer.
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I got it mounted and it's a deer camp now. Yeah. All right. Oh, man. Yeah. Um,
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hey, I want to ask you about a cover song you've been doing. Uh, you've been covering Love It.
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Love it if you made it. Thank you by 1975. Uh, some of its lyrics are pretty topical. Yeah.
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Dare I say even political, uh, your reference to the access Hollywood tape. No, we're talking about
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taking a knee. Um, are you trying to send a message with that cover? No, nope. No, I just like the song.
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Yeah. Yeah. All right. Set the record straight. Yeah. I mean, I know Maddie. He looks at, I know that
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that's, yeah, I know it was a risky move, but you did it for Amazon or something, right?
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Originally, uh, yeah. And I just, man, I love this song. I think it's cool. And, um, man,
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those lyrics are so, uh, metaphorical that like my, you know, and I, nobody in my, in my fan, you
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know, I, I think it could go Google the song and then Google with all the shit means, but, you
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know, whatever. It's literally just took it at face value and said, this is a cool song. I like it.
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Let's do it. Sometimes it's just a song, man. Sometimes just a song. Yeah. If you just don't look
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into the words, just read the words. But it's a wow. I've, I, uh, really didn't know what I was
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getting into until I committed to that song. And, uh, anyway, yeah, Google, I kind of broke a,
spk_0
chat GPT synopsis synopsis, like, whatever. Let's do it. Yeah. Um, what are you listening to now?
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Right now? Yeah. I love to know. Uh, I mean, me and everybody else in the world sleep token.
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I love sleep token, man. Oh, that's awesome. Cool, man. Uh, what else am I into right this second?
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Um, I'm really into, uh, if you're in a Bill Murray, not the actor with the band,
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they're blowing up Johnny. He's a good buddy of mine. Um, I will say the last sleep token is the last
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thing that I've heard in metalheads. Yeah. I'd love to just shit on sleep token. They do.
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Man, it's, it to me, it's like, it's, it's very fresh. And if you just say, like, don't tell anybody
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what genre it is, it's just like, just listen to it. Like, just to listen to it and make an assessment.
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It's fresh and it's cool. And the melodies are dope. He's got a very dope voice. There's a big,
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like weird sexual energy with a lot of it, which I think is super cool. The fact that they're all
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anonymous and in the spooky ass shit, it's, it's just aesthetically like really, really cool. Have you
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seen them live? No, I was, I was going to go because um, Johnny from Bill Murray is a buddy of mine.
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And they were opening for them at the O2 in London. And I had a chance to go. And I went to Vegas instead.
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I just had an opportunity to go to Vegas to do something. I was like, I was just going to go to Vegas.
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Are you a ghost fan? Not, not so much. I'm familiar, but not, not as much. Similar, similar vibe.
spk_0
Yeah. Similar vibe. Yeah. Metal, not metal. Same thing. Metal fans love to shit on ghost for
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not being metal. But you know, the anonymous thing is really cool. I love it, man. I'm a big,
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Alice Cooper fan. And I just love all that kind of, me too, man, West Borland even. Oh, yeah.
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You know, although people just, you know, nobody looks like, but, right, any, any of that stuff,
spk_0
if it's done right, it's like super cool. And I can talk metal with you all day. I love it.
spk_0
Dude, my favorite concert of all time is Slipknot. Yeah. It's the best show I've ever seen. Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah. Oh, man. What tour? It was actually welcome to Rockville. It was recently, it was like three or
spk_0
four years ago. Right. And I played the night after. And I was like one of the big letter people,
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but like I would, I was like, I put me down, put me, I'll keep the slot. But don't make my letters
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big, dude. Like that's crazy. And so we went out that we got there a day early and watched Slipknot.
spk_0
And I just got out there with the people, man, and just enjoyed the show and not a single soul,
spk_0
dude. I was. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me.
spk_0
Really appreciate you going so deep and talking about stuff.
spk_0
I'm happy to do it, brother. Thank you. All right.
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Well, that wraps up another episode of Nashville now. Thank you for joining us. Thank you
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to Hardy for joining us here in the cabin too. And we hope you're watching us on Rolling Stones YouTube
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Otherwise, check us out wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen on Amazon music.
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win Wednesday Rolling Stone. Nashville now. Country is here. Nashville is now.
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Rolling Stones Nashville now was hosted and produced by Joseph Huda,
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directed and produced by director Steve John, produced by Alexander Dale, executive
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produced by Jason Fein. This podcast is produced by the 1010 creative who are editor Steve John,
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Our Nashville now theme music written and performed by Adam Ditch Kurtz.