Pacific Division Preview (with Andy Kamenetzky & Bram Hillsman)

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 All right, welcome to RealGM Radio.

spk_0 This is our Pacific Division preview.

spk_0 Finally, getting to this,

spk_0 it's the final installment to my division preview series here.

spk_0 It took a while to get to this point.

spk_0 We had to wait for a resolution to the Jonathan Camingo thing.

spk_0 We had to wait for the warriors to fill out their roster,

spk_0 but it was well worth it because this is an awesome preview.

spk_0 I'm first joined by Andy Kemenenski,

spk_0 who host locked on Lakers also works for ESPN LA.

spk_0 Then I'm going to be joined by Bram Hillsman,

spk_0 who hosts the popular Warriors Huddle podcast

spk_0 for the Warriors Fan and Perspective on all of this kind of stuff.

spk_0 Andy comes on first and we go through the entire Pacific Division,

spk_0 team by team, who got better,

spk_0 who got worse, most interesting players,

spk_0 interesting rookies, interesting additions.

spk_0 We get into Luca and LeBron and everything about the Lakers.

spk_0 We get into everything going on with the Clippers and how all of this will affect

spk_0 the products on the court.

spk_0 At the end, we make some predictions about how the division will finish

spk_0 and how many teams in the division will make the playoffs.

spk_0 Then finally, we end with a little bit of talk about Steve Kerr,

spk_0 sneaky coaching free agent coming up here.

spk_0 What that means for him in the Warriors future,

spk_0 we talk about that and then Bram joins me to get the Warriors Fan perspective on all of that.

spk_0 Really excited for this episode.

spk_0 I think you'll enjoy it. Let's jump in.

spk_0 Andy Kaminenski from ESPN LA and locked on Lakers is here to help me preview the Pacific Division.

spk_0 Just a reminder for the audience,

spk_0 we're going to review each team's offseason,

spk_0 talk about who got better, who got worse.

spk_0 We're going to highlight some individual players and then we're going to make some predictions

spk_0 at the end of the show.

spk_0 Andy, you and I have been talking a long time about doing this Pacific Division preview.

spk_0 We've had to wait a little while because we had to wait for the Warriors to finish

spk_0 their offseason for the Jonathan Kaminga stuff all to happen.

spk_0 I'm going to cover the Warriors stuff more in depth with Bram Hillsman from the Warriors,

spk_0 Hattled Podcast a little bit later on in the show.

spk_0 But I wanted to get your thoughts first on the,

spk_0 like the Kaminga Warriors stuff and how surprised you were by how all this played out.

spk_0 I'm not surprised in a lot of ways that it played out this way

spk_0 just because Kaminga and the Warriors have been a mess for a few years.

spk_0 So the idea that this offseason would remain an extension of that mess

spk_0 to ultimately take them to what's felt like kind of a,

spk_0 if this is how it was going to wrap up, it took this long why?

spk_0 Exactly, but I think it feels indicative of just the dysfunction between

spk_0 the Warriors as a franchise and front office with Jonathan Kaminga.

spk_0 But also I think it speaks to whether we talk about this more in length or you talk about it more

spk_0 in the Warriors center portion of the show.

spk_0 I think it speaks to a big problem that Golden State is going to have in terms of trying to

spk_0 reach the highest ceiling possible because with a core of Steph and Jimmy and Dremon,

spk_0 it's obviously a good foundation, but there's only so much you want to push those three guys

spk_0 at their age.

spk_0 And when you look at the rest of the players around them,

spk_0 I think there's no doubt that no player on that roster has the potential to raise their ceiling

spk_0 and add as many different missing dynamics as Kaminga, but he's also a player that Steve

spk_0 Kirk clearly does not want to play more than he has to.

spk_0 So that can be limiting.

spk_0 I just the whole two timelines thing that they very, very prematurely and regrettably were

spk_0 patting themselves on the back about and loudly bragging. It has really come back to bite him in the ass.

spk_0 It has. I do want to touch on some of the bigger picture warrior stuff that you alluded to

spk_0 there later on in the show, but in terms of the Kaminga stuff, look, he resigned. He's there.

spk_0 He's on the roster with a nice contract. We'll see what happens. It sounds like everybody sort of

spk_0 agrees. You're on the roster now. You won't be on the roster forever. It's more of a win as opposed to

spk_0 if he's on the warriors going forward. But to call it a failure, it does feel a little premature,

spk_0 but it also feels accurate. It does sort of feel like the whole Kaminga thing was a failure.

spk_0 And I remember when I was covering the Warriors for Barrio News Group, I was there for the Kaminga

spk_0 draft. I covered that draft. The front office was pretty split on whether or not they wanted to

spk_0 draft John of the Kaminga. When it became a little bit clear that O.K.C. was going to pass on him and

spk_0 that he was going to be there for Golden State in that draft. There was definitely some louder voices

spk_0 in that front office that wanted Kaminga and obviously they went out. But there was people who

spk_0 wanted Josh Gideav. Obviously he wasn't available anymore. There was a pretty loud contingent that was

spk_0 really interested in Franz Wagner. And I remember writing a column for Barrio News Group saying like

spk_0 don't draft Kaminga. And as nothing to do with Kaminga as a player, but in terms of his talent or

spk_0 whether he's worthy of a top seven pick or anything like that, it's nothing to do with any of that.

spk_0 He doesn't work with what you guys are trying to do. And with Jremon and Steph and Clay at that

spk_0 point, obviously already established, he's not going to have the room to roam and to figure

spk_0 out how to do all this stuff. And I'm not saying this in order to just pat myself on the back and be

spk_0 like see, I was right. It was more of like this was so easy to spot that I spotted it as the column

spk_0 in a column for a newspaper. You know, it wasn't that hard to figure out that this was going to be an

spk_0 issue. If you watched any of the John of the Kaminga film coming out of the G. League night program.

spk_0 And so I think they got way overhead their skis. They fell in love with the talent, the physical

spk_0 attributes, all the everything about the player. They fell in love with it.

spk_0 Never really had a plan for how to do it. And that was so clear right away to your point because

spk_0 he just didn't work with Steve Kerr and his coaching staff got frustrated with him time and time again.

spk_0 Well, I mean, to be clear, the biggest reason the two timeline things was a failure was ultimately

spk_0 James Wyzen because that was a second overall pick that frankly is not an NBA player or does not

spk_0 seem to be. And that was a massive opportunity for the Warriors. If it was possible to bridge the

spk_0 now and the future, you needed to, if not nail that pick, at minimum come up with a quality NBA

spk_0 player. And they rotation piece. Yeah, like a like a like a a clear NBA player. And that's not what

spk_0 happened. So to be fair to Jonathan Kaminga or most Moody or, you know, Pajewanski, like any of

spk_0 those guys, the single biggest reason is Weisman. But the reason I consider the two timelines

spk_0 thing a failure is just because the Warriors don't seem all that excited about the future piece of

spk_0 that timeline right now. Like they seem and I understand why they seem most focused on

spk_0 milking every single last drop of the Steph era, you know, both in terms of

spk_0 wanting to win and also everything Steph represents. And that's fine. Except like with Kaminga,

spk_0 they've had multiple opportunities to trade him over the years to again, milk the Steph

spk_0 period for as much as they possibly can. They didn't do that. Now they're in this messy place where

spk_0 no matter what teams around the league may think about Kaminga, the Warriors have made it pretty

spk_0 clear like we think he's really flawed. Like we think this guy who we are hoping becomes a

spk_0 significant trade piece force this season. We think he's a pretty flawed player. And obviously,

spk_0 he's flawed for their system and not every, you know, frankly, few players, few teams around the league

spk_0 play like the Warriors. But they have been really hyper focused on the things that he doesn't do well,

spk_0 which I think is going to create weariness around the league with other teams. Like, hey,

spk_0 how is Kaminga going to fit with us given all the issues they've had? And, you know, the Warriors are

spk_0 considered, I think rightly, one of the more stable organizations around the league. So,

spk_0 and then like, you know, Moody's a solid, you know, NBA piece, but he's not foundational moving

spk_0 forward. And let's be gemski. I think takes significant leaps moving forward. He's a player that

spk_0 can be a part of winning, but he doesn't strike me as foundational. If it ain't Kaminga, then the

spk_0 whole two timeline thing really produced nobody that they can help build that future with.

spk_0 And when you say it that way, it starts to make sense about why they're holding on to Kaminga

spk_0 this way, because he's sort of the last lifeline to any post-stuff future. And my argument the

spk_0 whole time was like, who cares? Like who cares? We, we rag on teams like the Lakers or the Nuggets,

spk_0 or whoever it is for not maximizing their timeline around LeBron or Nikola Yokic or with the

spk_0 bucks in the honest or whatever it is. And the Warriors like, like, we don't really need you to do

spk_0 the future thing. We kind of want you to maximize. And then by the way, they trade for Jimmy Butler.

spk_0 And that was sort of a clear signal of we're kind of, we're pretty much just given up on the two

spk_0 timeline thing. And now it's really just a matter of getting value for coming. I don't knock them for

spk_0 not taking Malik Monk and a pick from Sacramento. I really don't. That to me was like not super

spk_0 moving the needle for me if I'm golden state. If I think I don't know if I move the needle,

spk_0 but I think it would have helped them be if nothing else. I think Malik Monk fits better for what

spk_0 they want to do. And if I had to guess Steve Kerr would feel more comfortable putting Monk on the

spk_0 floor. Right. Then he will Kaminga. I think what they're thinking is that trade will be there.

spk_0 That trade will be there. We could do it in December. We could do it in January. That,

spk_0 and now it obviously would have to be January because that's when Kaminga becomes trade eligible.

spk_0 That trade will be there or something at least very close to it will be there. And so

spk_0 I don't blame them for taking the long view on it. I really don't. But it just, it does feel like

spk_0 we're at the point of no return here. Obviously we are because that's basically been the reporting

spk_0 around it. Last thing on Kaminga before moving to the the the meat of the division preview here.

spk_0 Strip away like the team context stuff here with him. What is, what's the best version of Kaminga

spk_0 look like? Because I'm trying to think of the player comp. Right. He's a guy who has all of the

spk_0 tools to be an elite athletic two way player has shown flashes of being literally a lockdown defender.

spk_0 But those flashes have been very few and far between. Offensively he's kind of falls in love with

spk_0 the more inefficient kind of shot chart. So you look at him and you're like, could you be like a

spk_0 poor man's Paul George kind of type. But he has like almost the complete opposite mentality to

spk_0 kind of embrace that kind of role. He's a guy and I wrote a feature on him again when he was

spk_0 first drafted. He used to steal or not steal. But take the money that his mom gave him for like

spk_0 his quote unquote allowance when he was living in Africa and would go to a internet cafe down the

spk_0 road and spend all of his money watching Kobe Bryant highlights. And every player I know his

spk_0 age wants to be Kobe like all of them want to be Kobe. He really wants to be Kobe. Like when I

spk_0 asked him how many game like how do you watch the NBA games he watched Kobe Bryant highlights.

spk_0 That's what made him pick up a basketball. Like there's guys who idolized Kobe Bryant. And then

spk_0 there's on and then there's like another level and John the coming isn't that another level.

spk_0 Well, it's interesting and I covered for your audience who isn't familiar with the entirety

spk_0 my career. I covered the last 10 years of Kobe's career and I was around his teams a lot around

spk_0 practices stuff like that. Spent a lot of time watching Kobe. And for all the obvious comp and

spk_0 I would say even jokes about of course Jonathan Kaminga idolized Kobe because he wanted to be a

spk_0 number one scoring option with the ball in his hands. Like, you know, no shot is a bad shot because

spk_0 in Kobe's mind he can make those shots. And by the way, he was often right. Kobe, I think Jay

spk_0 and Don De Freys did this way. I think he's correct. Kobe may be the best bad shot maker or

spk_0 difficult shot maker in lead history. Like just some the degree of difficulty with some of these shots

spk_0 Kobe took and then made were off the charts. But I will say this if Kaminga really was watching

spk_0 the Kobe film, he should watch the entirety of the Kobe film and the entirety of everything Kobe

spk_0 did because prime Kobe was an exceptionally well-rounded player. Like he was a lockdown first team

spk_0 all defense. He was a very good rebounder for his position. Kobe was for all the talk about him

spk_0 being a ball stopper and a ball hog and yada yada yada. Kobe was an exceptional passer. And

spk_0 when he was in the mood to be a floor general, I used to say all the time if Kobe had entered the

spk_0 league wanting to be a Hall of Fame point guard, Kobe would have ended his career as a Hall of Fame

spk_0 point guard because he had that type of floor vision and passing skills and creativity. He was so

spk_0 ahead of me. Basketball IQ just IQ period. Kobe was an incredibly smart person off the court

spk_0 beyond everything he did on it. So I would say if Kaminga is watching Kobe highlights,

spk_0 that's great. There are far worse players for young guys to look to emulate. I would just say

spk_0 he should watch everything Kobe is doing and not just the scoring. So let's move on to our

spk_0 division preview part here. So we're going to start with which teams got better and then we'll

spk_0 move on to which teams got worse. I think there have been some previews I've done here Andy that

spk_0 this has been a little bit of a tougher exercise like did this team get better, did this team get

spk_0 worse? I think with this division, this segment is exceptionally easy. I think we know to me,

spk_0 there are three teams that clearly got better and there are two teams that clearly got worse.

spk_0 One team purposely got worse and the other team kind of did it by accident as they always do,

spk_0 not to give it away too much. But let's start with your lakers. Obviously they get better,

spk_0 right? Unless you disagree with me. No, I think they definitely got better

spk_0 arguably more than any team in the league or excuse me, any team in the division.

spk_0 So they add Marcus Smart, they add Jake Lurevia, they add DeAndre Aine,

spk_0 gone, Dorian Finney Smith, Jordan Goodwin, Shake Milton, Trey Jamison,

spk_0 and really it's worth mentioning, fully year of Luca Doncic, who also looks like he might be in

spk_0 a shape of his career. I'm going to consider that like a fraction of an ad.

spk_0 I think it's more than a fraction. In the notes, you let me know some of the things you'd be

spk_0 asking about when I was considering this. I said it might feel like a cheat to include full

spk_0 training camp with Luca, but it's not. It's a really big deal. Yeah.

spk_0 So you said that they might be the best, they might have gotten better than any other team in

spk_0 the division, which is interesting because you look on paper. And the only reason I said it's

spk_0 a fraction of an ad is because he was literally on the roster last year. So I'm like looking on paper.

spk_0 Like you look at the clippers, they added players, the Warriors added players, the Lakers added

spk_0 a couple of guys, but the Luca thing is the big. But they added factor. They added three rotational

spk_0 players. And in particular, they added rotational players that directly address needs. Like the

spk_0 Lakers needed a starting caliber center. And whatever flaws you think DeAndre and has. And I

spk_0 think a lot of the criticism he's taken over the years, I don't think it's all entirely fair,

spk_0 but I think some of it is regardless. He is a legit starting center. I don't think you can debate

spk_0 that otherwise. He fills a massive need for the Lakers. Marcus Smart, assuming.

spk_0 Can I stop you on it? And because I've heard you say this unlocked on Lakers, and it's a great

spk_0 point, right? It's you go from basically being having to play a two way guy at the center position

spk_0 to now getting, and I agree with you, a bona fide certified starting level center. Yeah.

spk_0 He's not going to ever be the number one pick, DeAndre and we know that that's gone ship sailed.

spk_0 Sorry. But here doesn't have to be that for this team. Thank you. That's what meant like that's

spk_0 the Sun's burden to bear and be bitter about. Then he was not worth the number one overall pick.

spk_0 The Lakers don't need that. They need him to be a starting caliber center who can help them in

spk_0 much needed rebounding. He's never averaged less than 10 rebounds a game. He's a good rebounder.

spk_0 He's a very good offensive rebounder as well. So that can help get the Lakers better possessions. He

spk_0 is a good pick and roll partner, but also I think a decent pick and pop partner like in a mid range

spk_0 area. He is not a high end defensive center, but I think he can be a better lane deterrent

spk_0 just through his overall physicality and size than Jackson Hayes was. He's got a little bit of

spk_0 quickness if you need him to switch a little bit in certain situations and stuff like that. But just

spk_0 he's a massive upgrade over Jackson Hayes who is somewhere between a second to third string

spk_0 caliber center in the league and the two way guys that were playing last year. Like he represents

spk_0 something significant they did not have at all. And that's before you get to mark a smart assuming

spk_0 he's healthy, addressing the perimeter defensive defensive issues that I think are still there

spk_0 for this team, but he at least helps bring a dimension that wasn't there. And Jake Luravie I think

spk_0 in certain respects will replace some of what DFS did. And he's a connecting player. And I think

spk_0 contending teams need connecting players. I want to go back to Aiden because I do think it's

spk_0 one of the more fascinating additions here because I agree with everything you said. And I think

spk_0 it's really well put where you say that he was the number one pick for Phoenix. It's been two

spk_0 teams since then, right? It's been Phoenix. It's been Portland and now it's with the Lakers. And I

spk_0 in the past, right with the dominating stuff. I want to be a Max guy now. I'm always a Max guy

spk_0 and all this stuff. He's definitely stepped in it. He's also really young. He was the number one

spk_0 pick. He has been a projected number one pick, by the way, his entire life. Like you look at his

spk_0 recruiting background and all the like this guy was just like silver spoon in a lot of ways in terms

spk_0 of just athletic gifts. He has, I think, been humbled a little bit. And I actually really like this

spk_0 media day quotes. And this is not from a guy. It's not I am not a Lakers fan. I don't cover the team.

spk_0 I am an outsider completely. And I see those quotes. And I'm like, yep. And again, you can roll

spk_0 your eyes and say, oh, he's like, now I'm playing for something that matters and all this stuff. And

spk_0 you're like, well, you were, you know, on a championship team. And then you kind of shit the bed

spk_0 after that. Yes, he did. He was, but he did play, but he was a big part of that team going to

spk_0 the finals. Like he was. And then it's been pretty well documented that he was entering a contract

spk_0 year. And the sons had told him do these things that aren't necessarily number one overall,

spk_0 statsy type things, some of the proverbial little things, some of the dirty work. And you will get paid.

spk_0 He did all that stuff in the finals run. And then they said, well, if you can find a contract,

spk_0 we'll match it. And I'm not saying that there isn't an onus on Aiton to be a professional even

spk_0 that situation. Of course, there is. Like he has to own accountability. But that can be disillusioning

spk_0 for, you know, somebody who's in his early 20s. But also, I think if we're all being honest,

spk_0 in our jobs, whatever we do, if you are told to do certain things that aren't necessarily glamorous

spk_0 that feel like sacrifice, and there will be a reward for doing it, and you do it, and your bosses

spk_0 turn around and say, well, you know, we're not going to actually give you the rewards that we promise.

spk_0 That's going to piss you off in your job. It will.

spk_0 So, um, so yeah. And then he goes to I love Portland as a city. So it's great. I love. I think it's a great city.

spk_0 Basketball players tend to not feel the same way. It's a little bit of sort of, oh, now we're in

spk_0 the Pacific Northwest. We're kind of stranded out here. He goes from Phoenix, which is a place that

spk_0 NBA players tend to like very much to a little bit of a basketball Siberia in Portland on an

spk_0 losing situation. And then they draft his replacement. I could understand why he'd be like, not

spk_0 totally psyched about it here. I'm willing to give up money. If it means I get to go to Los Angeles

spk_0 and play for an organization like the Lakers alongside, by the way, Luca Donge and LeBron James.

spk_0 I've also seen this point here. And maybe I look, I might be way too bullish on DeAndre. And I

spk_0 fully admit it, I might have fallen in love with the finals running all this stuff. For what it's

spk_0 worth, for what it's worth, I'm pretty bullish on what he's going to see in two. So then, then,

spk_0 there is nobody here to balance us. There's no checks and balances here. So let's just roll,

spk_0 let's roll with it. But I've seen a lot of people say, well, you know, you want him to be a room-running

spk_0 center because that's what works with Luca. DeAndre isn't really that. He likes to play in the mid-range

spk_0 and kind of hit those pull those jumpers. And well, yeah, yeah, he has. He's also never played with a

spk_0 guy quite like Luca, even Chris Paul, who is as great of a pick and roll creator as there is. He

spk_0 looks for not at that stage in Chris Paul's career. Like with DeAndre Jordan and Blake Ruffin was

spk_0 a little bit different. Last time I checked, I don't know that there were players that didn't love

spk_0 points. And if Luca is going to be spoon-feeding DeAndre in points, and he has to get him easier

spk_0 at the basket as opposed to settling for 13, 14, 15 foot jumpers, something tells me he'll be okay

spk_0 with it. If it means he's getting the easiest 15 points of his career per game.

spk_0 Well, I mean, if you, let me put this way, if you believe all the knocks on DeAndre

spk_0 Aiton that he's low motor, doesn't necessarily care, doesn't want to take the hardest route possible

spk_0 that it stands to reason that he's going to love being spoon-fed around the rim. Like, you can't

spk_0 have this both ways. Right. Right. Let's talk about Marcus Mart, again, fascinating here.

spk_0 Lower on the Marcus Mart edition than I am the DeAndre Aiton edition. Two reasons why.

spk_0 I know JJ Reddick told him, hey, if you could be Celtic Marcus Mart, then you're exactly what we

spk_0 need. And Marcus Mart is saying, like, I could definitely do that because I am Celtic Marcus Mart.

spk_0 I don't think he is anymore. It's been two years now where I haven't seen it. It's really hard

spk_0 to get that kind of thing back. You don't typically see players like Marcus Mart at this stage as

spk_0 a carrier, kind of hit the reset button and go back to something now. Everything we've heard is

spk_0 that his conditioning is better and things like that. I think he could be better than what he was in

spk_0 Memphis, which would just require being on the court and healthy. I think he could be better than what

spk_0 he was down the stretch of last year with Washington, playing for a losing team that wasn't really

spk_0 doing anything. And for Marcus Mart, there's a ton of credit for that wizard. He tried for that

spk_0 wizard's team. Like, he was actually out there playing basketball. But in terms of being the perimeter

spk_0 defender, I don't know that that's there anymore for him. Even Memphis in Washington kind of used him

spk_0 more as an off-ball wing defender. And if that's what he's doing with the Lakers, I think that's fine.

spk_0 I think like, obviously, they would still have a glaring needed point of attack. And maybe he has

spk_0 to step into that spot anyway. But if he's guarding wings, I think he's very capable of doing that.

spk_0 I'm just a little hesitant to be like, yeah, they solved their point of attack defense issues

spk_0 with Marcus Mart. A, because he's just older. B played what 50 combined games are the last two

spk_0 years. I have questions about his health overall. And if he's even going to be available. But I do

spk_0 think it'll be overall a net positive. If anything, because they need somebody to take ownership

spk_0 of the defense that isn't JJ Reddick, like they need a player. And we know one thing about Marcus

spk_0 Mart is he's going to hold teammates accountable. He's going to be communicating on the court. He's

spk_0 going to be connecting stuff. I think that might be where his value is more to this defense than

spk_0 locking up Steph Curry in a basketball game. It's interesting. You say that because in some respects,

spk_0 I think that's one of the more direct areas where Marcus Smart is is replacing Dorian Finney Smith.

spk_0 Like Dorian Finney Smith came into the Lakers locker amid season last year. And his voice immediately

spk_0 mattered, which is something very consistent with DFS's career. I imagine that once he is healthy

spk_0 for Houston. Unfortunately, it was just announced that he's going to be missing the beginning of the

spk_0 season recovering from offseason ankle surgery. I imagine DFS's voice will matter in that locker

spk_0 room. And by the way, they need a voice, particularly with Fred Van Bleep out for the season. And he

spk_0 was one of the most important voices. And for all the things Kevin Durant does extremely well. I

spk_0 don't think that is particularly high on the list. So they're going to need someone. I think

spk_0 DFS will be helpful there. I agree. Marcus Smart will be helpful along those lines as well.

spk_0 As far as what he does on the court, I agree with you. Defensive player of the year, Marcus Smart

spk_0 feels like a tall ask. You mentioned the recent string of injuries. He is already dealing with some

spk_0 Achilles tendonopathy that was just announced when training camp began.

spk_0 Marcus Smart has not been unless as of this recording things change, but I doubt it will.

spk_0 He has not been fully engaged in practices, full participant, any stuff like that.

spk_0 I think his availability for the season opener. I'm not going to say that it's in jeopardy yet,

spk_0 just because it's too early and I don't know enough information, but I don't think it's also

spk_0 a given that'll be there either. They need him though to help improve the perimeter defense.

spk_0 If not, solve the problem. I agree with you. Solving the perimeter defense, solving the point

spk_0 of attack defense, that feels like a bit premature. First of all, it's too much to put on one guy

spk_0 anyway. Frankly, I think Jared Vanderbilt, his health and availability, which on the plus side,

spk_0 has seemed terrific so far in training camp. The second day of practice for the Lakers was basically

spk_0 JJ Redick and various players taking turns praising how good Vander looks. I think in some

spk_0 respects, Vando may play a larger role in that than Smart, but the two of them together and healthy

spk_0 and available, that's what's going to, if not, solve it significantly offset the issues the Lakers

spk_0 had last year, but just bringing in somebody like Smart, who is an improvement over what they had,

spk_0 and if nothing else can prevent as many opportunities of Austin Reeves having to do this on top of his

spk_0 offense, the responsibilities, or we saw a lot last year putting Rui Hachimura in a situation where

spk_0 he has to check guards because there's nobody else to do it, and as much as Rui tried, that's not

spk_0 really a fair ask of it. Just having Marcus Smart there to do some of that, even if he can't do it

spk_0 peak Marcus Smart level, it's an upgrade from what was there before.

spk_0 Surprisingly, at least I was surprised by it. I think JJ Redick might be best at coaching

spk_0 defense, and you would think maybe it would be the opposite for JJ Redick, who was not a good defensive

spk_0 player by any stretch, and that was probably just more athletic limitations, but obviously everybody

spk_0 knew three-point shooting offensively. He talked a lot about offense during his broadcast career.

spk_0 I know that there is some debate about the Lakers defense in the second half of last year,

spk_0 and how real it was versus not, and it did slip towards the end after being whatever it was

spk_0 number one, number two, defensive rating for like a month, a month, a half, or whatever.

spk_0 I don't care very much about the numbers where they ranked for that stretch.

spk_0 I know that there's some shooting luck and stuff like that, where they leaving the right

spk_0 players open, where they're just missing shots, all this stuff. We can do the stats, we can dive

spk_0 into them. I've definitely talked about it. People have written about it. People have talked about it.

spk_0 Here's where I come down on it. I'm more, again, bullish about the Lakers defense,

spk_0 because I saw the buy-in from the players in the system that Redick had. As long as that buy-in stays,

spk_0 there's enough length that can overcome some of the concerns that I have with point-of-attack defense.

spk_0 If you get buy-in, okay, there's big arms of Rietzhe Moran, D'Andre, and LeBron James,

spk_0 Luca Doncic, all these guys are there. Their lineup is pretty big. The only small guy is going to be

spk_0 Austin Reeves, and then maybe Marcus Smart if he ends up starting over Rui. I don't think they're

spk_0 going to be an amazing defense. They're not going to be one of the top five defenses in the league.

spk_0 I think they can at least do enough to get to be average. Then if you've got Luca, LeBron, Rui,

spk_0 even Reeves, his zone flashes of really cranking it up defensively in crucial moments at end of

spk_0 games. If you can just get a couple of stops at the end, I think the formula looks a little bit

spk_0 like what Denver's formula was in 2023. It's interesting. As far as the idea of the buy-in,

spk_0 I think you really hit on something important, in particular the buy-in from LeBron.

spk_0 More than the addition of Dorian Finney Smith or schemes or Jordan Goodwin actually,

spk_0 I thought played kind of an older one. I kind of wish he came back. I don't kind of wish

spk_0 he was back. I wish he was back. Can you explain why they had to let him go to make room for Marcus

spk_0 Smart? Because I would have loved to have Goodwin there with Marcus Smart. In order to get the full,

spk_0 I believe buy-in, you'll accept. That's what I'll say. Yeah, it's cap stuff. I think in a perfect

spk_0 world they would have preferred to keep Jordan Goodwin. He's the guy that had the non-fully guaranteed

spk_0 contract without getting super into the weeds cap stuff. But I think in a perfect world they would

spk_0 have liked to have kept him. I think JJ should have played Jordan Goodwin. I said this a lot on

spk_0 lockdown Lakers and on Lakers Talk, my weekly Lakers show for ESPN LA, 710 in Los Angeles. I think

spk_0 JJ could have and should have played Goodwin more in the playoffs. I think his presence helped

spk_0 that defensive surge they had. But more than anything, LeBron's buy-in. And I think LeBron

spk_0 committing to that end of the floor, A, it helps just because when LeBron wants to, he can still

spk_0 be a very effective defender. But also, it creates an entire team-wide accountability because

spk_0 if the old man's out there, busting his ass defensively, there's no excuse for anybody else,

spk_0 not to do it. You have to do it. In the same way that I think Lucas commitment this off-season

spk_0 to conditioning and fitness and seems like so far, at least more accountability defensively,

spk_0 it creates, I think, an entire team-wide excitement and like a let's eff and go from everybody.

spk_0 You see that. And it excites you. But also, there's a, oh, wow, I need to step up what I'm doing

spk_0 because if Luca spent his entire off-season transforming his body in anticipation of stepping up

spk_0 his own game, I got to match that. Players take cues from their leaders. I don't think the

spk_0 defense during that period was fake or all-smoking mirrors because they did it repeatedly over

spk_0 game after game after game. At some point that has to be real, I think the problem is just not

spk_0 sustainable. Like it's so exhausting and taxing to essentially be doing all that to offset specifically

spk_0 lack of room protection. I'm hopeful that Deandre Aiton being there just prevents them from having

spk_0 to play that level of balls to the walls flying all over the place for 82 games. Like, and

spk_0 you know, Luca maybe being more mobile, Vanderbilt being healthy, I think, would help a lot along

spk_0 these lines. It's just too taxing over 82 games, much less 82 games and however long they're in the

spk_0 playoffs. We've hit it a number of times but there's so many reasons why Deandre Aiton might be,

spk_0 it is one of the best, most five interesting players in the league this year. It's so important.

spk_0 He's such a hinge piece for them. I don't want to spend a ton of time on the LeBron load management

spk_0 stuff but this was sort of the headline coming out of training camp with the Lakers is, you know,

spk_0 he's, they're ramping them up slowly, age 23rd season, all this stuff. The reason I don't want to

spk_0 spend a ton of time on it is because we really don't know what this looks like. It's brand new.

spk_0 I again, I will like LeBron is very famous for saying I'm going to slow it down. I'm going to take

spk_0 a load off and then not so eventually it feels like he has to eventually kind of slow down at some,

spk_0 and he already obviously already is in some respects but it's just something that's out there.

spk_0 I thought we kind of had to mention it but I don't want to over react to it because we just don't

spk_0 know what it's going to look like unless you disagree. Maybe you think it's a little bit more material.

spk_0 No, I mean, we don't know. I mean, they're ramping him up during training camp and, you know, he's

spk_0 got this nerve irritation in glute area then they're obviously going to be careful about and,

spk_0 you know, there's a certain amount of caution that would be exercised during training camp under

spk_0 any circumstances just because all the reasons that were mentioned before. LeBron does not like

spk_0 too load management. He does not like to take games off. I think he looks and there's positives and

spk_0 negatives to this. I think he looks to often find rest within the game when can I think the best

spk_0 way for the Lakers to load manage LeBron is play as well as they can and as focused and purposeful as

spk_0 they can for three quarters, create big leads and then give LeBron rest in the fourth quarter.

spk_0 Like I think that's actually the most practical way to try to get him, if you want to call

spk_0 load manage throughout a season because the truth is the West is too competitive. Like they do not

spk_0 have the luxury of truly load managing LeBron in a, you know, Greg Popovich DNP old type way.

spk_0 Right, right. You can do it in a Greg Popovich in way of Tim Duncan doesn't play more than 30

spk_0 minutes a night during the regular season. I think they'd love to do that if they could.

spk_0 I think that will be difficult to do with the second best player on your team. Like just look

spk_0 around the league and other than maybe the thunder, I don't know of a team that can get by playing

spk_0 their second best player 30-ish minutes a night as a cap and still maintain the pace that you need

spk_0 the West is just really difficult. And exactly. And that's why I like, I'm going to wait and see what

spk_0 this actually looks like before we have what this means. I'll say this. It becomes a thing that has to

spk_0 happen. I think it dramatically impacts the lake or ceiling for the season. It's a problem. Well said.

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spk_0 Let's move on to the other team in LA, the Los Angeles Clippers. They add, brook, Lopez, John

spk_0 Collins, Bradley Beal, Chris Paul, they lose Norm Powell in the John Collins swap, AmeriCoffee also

spk_0 gone. And then there's the Kuala Leonard scandal, which we've talked about it on the show already

spk_0 a bunch. So we don't necessarily need to do the particulars of the scandal unless you have a

spk_0 take that you necessarily have to get off. I imagine you've talked about it a ton too. So we can

spk_0 just freeze by it if we want, but it will impact, I think this I'll say this as my summary of

spk_0 the Clipper situation, Occam's razor. And for those unfamiliar with it, look it up and you'll

spk_0 know what I'm talking about. That's all I would say is just Occam's razor. On paper, this team got

spk_0 better. Yeah, I would agree. I, the Kuala's stuff to me is an issue. And there's been a lot of

spk_0 people, a smart people who disagree with me, who think, Hey, Kuala's availability has always been

spk_0 an issue. It's always kind of something going on with him. It's always a little bit of a distraction

spk_0 with him because he's so sort of off on his own and you don't really know what's going on there.

spk_0 And so the Clippers and Tai Lu have navigated these waters before and you look at all the guides

spk_0 they got and they're just so much better as a roster, so much more dynamic, so much more versatile.

spk_0 And I agree with a lot of that stuff. I also don't think they've ever dealt with a distraction

spk_0 quite like this. This just feels different in tenor in magnitude. And when I'm trying to go

spk_0 through this and I say, Okay, this team got better, this team got worse. This was the only one I

spk_0 actually had a hard time with because again, on paper, they clearly got better, I think.

spk_0 But in practice, this team won 50 games last year. They were pretty good.

spk_0 They should win 50 games again and I had them projected to easily clear 50 games before all the

spk_0 Kuala's scandal stuff, but these are the kinds of distractions that can tank an entire season

spk_0 regardless of the offseason additions that you made. And that would be my big fear if our

spk_0 Clippers fan is this Kuala thing just takes on a life of its own more than it already has and

spk_0 becomes such a distraction during the regular season that all this on paper stuff can't really

spk_0 function the way we hoped. I'm not as concerned about that just because unless Kuala gets suspended or

spk_0 I guess his contract gets voided or something like that and he's quite literally not available to

spk_0 play for the Clippers or no longer on the Clippers, there's not really much that can come of this

spk_0 investigation that I think will directly affect the basketball this season. It may affect the future

spk_0 for the Clippers moving forward and that's obviously a big deal, but it doesn't really have much to

spk_0 do with this season and Kuala has always been so inscrutable his whole career that I don't know,

spk_0 again, unless this leads to him being suspended, I don't know if you're even going to know the

spk_0 difference in a lot of ways with Kuala. Like he is dealt with a lot of stuff like if you believe

spk_0 everything that public Tori has been uncovering and guys like John Corralis over the Lockdown Network

spk_0 with us some of the reporting they've done, these are things that Kuala has been dealing with and

spk_0 keeping secret for years anyway. So he's been juggling this anyway and it hasn't been an issue to

spk_0 me if injuries don't trip up Kuala, I don't think this situation is really going to affect the Clippers

spk_0 on the court just because I'm not sure what can come of the investigation other than a suspension

spk_0 of Kuala that would actually affect the team. Like if say they lose draft, like if say Adam Silver

spk_0 announces a punishment that involves loss of draft picks moving forward, that's obviously a massive

spk_0 deal for the Clippers but it doesn't affect him this season. It doesn't really hurt them for

spk_0 the now. I think the additions that they made, you know the Clippers might have the best depth in

spk_0 the league when it comes to just guys on your roster that you can put on the court without being

spk_0 worried that they're not NBA players or that they really have no business being on the court. They're

spk_0 laws they may have weaknesses whatever but you can confidently put them on the court knowing their NBA

spk_0 players. There aren't a lot of teams like that. There's a collective age issue. Three of the four

spk_0 newcomers that they brought in Chris Paul Bradley-Beele, Brooke Lopez have age injury concerns or both.

spk_0 John Collins is the only guy they brought in in his 20s and he's an interesting guy in his own

spk_0 right just because it's been so long since John Collins has played basketball that anybody has

spk_0 cared about at all. So it'll be interesting to see what he looks like in this situation.

spk_0 I think they are very susceptible to age and attrition and injuries but they've got a lot of

spk_0 guys on this roster that can play. They've got a lot they've got a lot of pieces that I think fit

spk_0 together very well like remove the the age question and the number next to all these guys names

spk_0 that largely begin with a three and just look at the skill sets the skill sets are pretty well-matched.

spk_0 I love the roster if we're let's play it out talk about this basketball team on paper. I love

spk_0 this roster. I have two rules people have heard me say it. I don't know if you've heard me say it. I

spk_0 and don't watch the Hornets after February and that's it. Those are my two rules.

spk_0 There's no reason for watching them pre-February. I just got a curiosity to do your job but I let myself

spk_0 off. I'll fair. I'll fair. I'll let myself off the hook by Dan Lamello's hurt and nobody cares.

spk_0 Including Lamello. At least by then. I hear you about the age concerns. I think they're almost

spk_0 so deep that I don't care about it. You know what I mean? Like Horton is an innings eater. That guy's

spk_0 going to play so many regular season games. I kind of love the addition of Chris Paul for this team.

spk_0 I do too because last year and this wasn't even necessarily a bad thing but their offense kind of

spk_0 had two modes and they would toggle between the two very distinct offenses. One was James Harden runs

spk_0 pick and roll with the Vichazoo botch and that was incredibly efficient and then the other one was

spk_0 dump the ball into the post to koai and let him go to work and that was incredibly efficient when he

spk_0 was at his best. Chris Paul, that's just a new ingredient. It's a new menu item. It's something

spk_0 else that they could do. It's okay. Well, when it's not Horton and when it's not koai, we can at least

spk_0 grab five to ten minutes a night of Chris Paul making things work offensively for us. He's one of

spk_0 the all-time great floor razors in NBA history. Yep. And you look at some of the shooters on this

spk_0 roster and I'm like, okay, he's going to kick out to Collins in the corner. He's got, I think he'll

spk_0 be on the court with Bradley Beal or Horton. So he's going to be able to kick out to those guys.

spk_0 Obviously, koai is a great spot-up shooter. These guys, they're Jones Jr.'s little up and down

spk_0 but he's pretty reliable as a spot-up guy at this point in his career. So yeah, I think Chris Paul

spk_0 can make things happen. The John Collins thing to me, I think we could put a pin in that for maybe

spk_0 a later section. And then you add brook Lopez between Zubachu. I have as a top eight or nine

spk_0 center in the league. I think he was easily one of the best five centers in the league last season.

spk_0 Really good. And then you add brook Lopez to that. And they might have the best one two-punch at

spk_0 center in the league at this point outside of maybe Cleveland with Jared Allen and Evan Mowbley.

spk_0 So I really like a lot of what this Clippers roster is. My concern though is,

spk_0 have we added too much Chris Paul Bradley, Biela John Collins, brook Lopez to the point where I'm

spk_0 having to play guys like Chris Dunn and Derek Jones Jr. a little bit less than what I did last year.

spk_0 Because they felt so like there was a clear framework in place of how it worked, where it was

spk_0 Zubach, Derek Jones Jr. and Chris Dunn kind of being the backbone of a really good defense,

spk_0 the third rated defense in the league. And then sort of Kauai and James Harden just figuring

spk_0 out offensively, and as we said, they did enough. The additions of these big name veterans start

spk_0 to diminish the roles of those Derek Jones Jr. and Chris Dunn's who are so like toolsy and

spk_0 fundamental to what the backbone of this defense was. I think it depends on whether or not Tyleu

spk_0 has discussed with Chris Paul with brook Lopez with even Bradley Biel. I want to try to limit your

spk_0 minutes up to a certain point. I mean frankly with with Lopez and Chris Paul, you should be looking

spk_0 to do that anyway. They're in their late 30s or is Chris Paul now 40? He's close to 40 if he's not 40.

spk_0 Like I know Chris Paul played 82 games last year and that's 40. Yeah. And by the way, that's

spk_0 something that kind of flew under the radar. Chris Paul playing 82 games at his age last year was

spk_0 unbelievable. Pretty amazing. But there's a natural cap to the workload you want to put on those

spk_0 guys anyway. You know Bradley Biel has had, I know he's not old, but he's had a lot of injury

spk_0 concerns over the course of his career. So there should be I think a certain cap to the workload

spk_0 you want to put on those guys anyway. I think it's one of those, I think it's one of those areas

spk_0 where Tai Liu as a very respected coach and also somebody that I think is a very good communicator

spk_0 and somebody that players seem to bond with in terms of just I will orchestrate your vision.

spk_0 I understand what you want to do. I trust you for what you want to do. I think Tai Liu is about

spk_0 as well equipped coach in the league to deal with this potential issue that you're that you're

spk_0 talking about. And I've heard other people raise that question as well. Like well, some of those

spk_0 really important defensive players who don't necessarily grab the headlines or the stats,

spk_0 but really matter. Are they going to get squeezed? I would say if Tai Liu allows that to happen,

spk_0 it means either these newcomers are much better at feeling sort of feeling the cracks

spk_0 that Jones or Dunwood than anybody expected or he just he's leaning into all offense and just

spk_0 we're going to outscore everybody or I guess leaning into the status of those guys, but I would

spk_0 I would think that if if Tai Liu could have hard conversations with Prime LeBron, he can have hard

spk_0 conversations with Brooklobe as in his late 30s. And that's the other part of this too. If I

spk_0 just to coach to figure this stuff out, it is Tai Liu. He's on a short list of coaches who I

spk_0 figure out who I trust to figure this stuff out for the exact reasons you already said.

spk_0 I'm by the way, very interested to see what Bradley Beale looks like when playing for a team that's

spk_0 not actively trying to make him unhappy. For the point that he gives up $50 million.

spk_0 The guys are really good at 3-point shooters still. He shot basically 40% when he was happy in

spk_0 Phoenix versus when they were trying to make him miserable. Did they have splits? Happy versus

spk_0 unhappy? For him they should. Actually, we could probably come up with an all happy versus unhappy

spk_0 NBA team. Let's do Warriors quickly because we already talked about it a little bit with

spk_0 Kaminga and I have a bigger Warriors section coming up later. But we both had them getting better.

spk_0 I think that's very obvious. I said I think they're about the same actually. Tell me why.

spk_0 I think because their new additions don't necessarily move me that much.

spk_0 Anthony Melton is not going to be ready at the start of the season. Gary Payton, the second,

spk_0 is I think a good back of the rotation type player, but I don't think he moves the needle much.

spk_0 Al Horford, I'm very curious to see what he looks like. I know he's still playing at a pretty,

spk_0 he's playing it somewhere between a solid to high level for a guy of his age and that's pretty

spk_0 awesome. He's also going to be for the first time in a long time on a team not surrounded by a lot

spk_0 of young athletes who I think can offset some of the issues that specifically an aging guy like

spk_0 Al Horford may have. He is now the foundation that he's playing with as just as old as him.

spk_0 So I'm curious to see exactly what that looks like. I have a ton of respect for Al Horford.

spk_0 Like I think he's had a tremendous career. He seems like as high a character or a guy in the NBA

spk_0 as we have. I'm not as bullish on him being a big addition for the warriors as the grand

spk_0 consensus seems to be just because I think the setup is so much different than it was in Boston.

spk_0 I need to see it. I'm also concerned about how much the big three can push themselves over the

spk_0 course of the season. Jimmy, I know that there was a jolt of energy last season for I think both

spk_0 the team and Jimmy when Jimmy arrived. But that was something that both sides desperately needed.

spk_0 The context has changed a lot like Jimmy is the new normal and this is now a full year of those

spk_0 guys having to play at a certain level and they're obviously all still very good players.

spk_0 But just I have a lot of concerns about the attrition with them and I don't know if they got

spk_0 worse. I don't think they've gotten worse but I'm not as convinced as a lot of people that they

spk_0 actually got better. They feel to me like a car with a faulty transmission and you know you got to

spk_0 get it replaced but the check doesn't come in until the end of the month and you got a week left

spk_0 until the end of the month and you're just hoping that this thing gets you to work every day

spk_0 and you're just waiting for it to break down. Except that's a long week in NBA season.

spk_0 That's a long week. Yes. And for the warriors by the way also for playoffs series and that's my

spk_0 biggest concern with them is they're not good. They're not deep playoff run. I'm either at all.

spk_0 And this is what I'll tell you this because I think it's interesting but I also said it later in

spk_0 the show but to me for Steph it's not about championships anymore like the Warriors and Warriors fans

spk_0 could disagree and they could say we're going to keep going for it and I respect it I do.

spk_0 I respect trading for Jimmy and going for it. I respect all of it. I'm no problem.

spk_0 It's not about accomplishments anymore for Steph. It's about moments. And I even think it's the same

spk_0 thing for LeBron not so much for Luca right so it's a little bit of a different context with the

spk_0 Lakers but it's at these guys just give us a moment in the playoffs in games that matter.

spk_0 It's all we really care about and that's why overall I like the Warriors what they did because I think

spk_0 I think they fortified the roster enough to get them into the playoffs which

spk_0 like that was a question before they made the Jimmy Butler trade right that they would even get

spk_0 there. So I like what they did enough to where I feel like yep I at least think that you can

spk_0 win a play in game and get there at the very least and they could they could also be top six in

spk_0 the West. I think that's in the right possible. I don't think it's probable but I think possible.

spk_0 I agreed. Let's talk about who got worse. The Suns got worse. They did it on purpose. They

spk_0 a purposeful reset Matt Ishbia at media day talking about house. Me hands on Matt Ishbia.

spk_0 Not going to be measured in wins. It's going to be measured in success or whatever he said.

spk_0 I know that there was jokes but I appreciated the slice of humble buy that he was sharing with

spk_0 everybody. You know what even his humble pie. I think Matt Ishbia I'll just be candid. I think he's a

spk_0 loon. I think that guy is an absolute lunatic. It is very difficult and I think Suns fans will

spk_0 know this to potentially be a worse owner than Robert Sarver and so it's clear at least there's

spk_0 no evidence that Matt Ishbia is a worse human being than Robert Sarver. I low barred a clear but

spk_0 nonetheless he does not seem to be a worse human being based on what we know already. But that said,

spk_0 I think it is possible that with the basketball he could end up a worse owner than Robert Sarver

spk_0 because thus far he has been I think hyper aggressive in every single move he's made and does not

spk_0 seem to understand that he doesn't seem to understand what he doesn't know. But the reason I said

spk_0 like the humble pie didn't even feel like humble pie. Remember when I think it was ESPN had some

spk_0 like pundits panel where do you think the Suns will finish? Yada Yada, Suns I think got worse or

spk_0 you know low record and he said something to the fact that well you know these so-called experts

spk_0 a couple of years ago said that we're going to be contenders and they were wrong about that. I'm

spk_0 like bro they were wrong about the team. You bragged about putting together. You were as enthusiastic

spk_0 or more than any of these pundits. Like just I mean for our purposes keep talking. For Suns fans

spk_0 purposes just shut the F up. Just shut up. There is a little bit of a Jerry Jones thing happening

spk_0 which is an extreme. Nobody will ever be full Jerry Jones other than Jerry Jones but like nobody

spk_0 doubts Jerry Jones's ability to build a valuable franchise. Right? Like the thousand average is

spk_0 very valuable. What he's done off the field is very interesting. I think when Ashpia has done off

spk_0 the court is very interesting with the TV rights that he's got with the Phoenix Suns the way that he's

spk_0 increased the value of the franchise. I think all of that stuff is very good business ownership stuff

spk_0 and shouldn't be discounted but to your point. But you know what that's to involve with the product.

spk_0 That's stuff fans don't care about. Fans don't necessarily care about it. Yeah.

spk_0 About the value of the franchise they do not other than this new TV deal I think making games more

spk_0 accessible to them. Very interesting. There is just local rights stuff and good on it as much as I

spk_0 was just bagging on it before I want to be fair good on him for that because that is something that

spk_0 fans will appreciate a lot. I think he needs to try to pry himself out of the offices where basketball

spk_0 decisions are made and he seems incapable of it. Right. It would be like if he just didn't do the

spk_0 press conferences and he allowed the GMs and the coaches and the players to talk about it at like a

spk_0 normal media day. I don't know if he looks across the league. Is he wondering why other owners

spk_0 aren't talking at media day? But when we were talking about it I grew with you. They got worse

spk_0 this off season. It's not just the moves they made like trading Kevin Durant, bringing in Jalen

spk_0 Green, bringing in Dylan Brooks, the drafting of Common Mollewatch which he is probably a TBD

spk_0 type player in terms of success with failure with that pick. They got worse this year.

spk_0 But even if you want to say there is some intentionality with getting worse with a reset,

spk_0 the Bradley Beale wave and stretch to me was insane. I do not understand for the life of me

spk_0 why they did that. What is the point to putting several years of 20-ish million dollars worth

spk_0 of debt money around Devon Booker as you're trying to build around him? If nothing else I would have

spk_0 waited a year to do that. Like the difference between say 10 million in debt money versus 20 million

spk_0 is massive. I mean other than saving the money which great I mean happy for Matt Ischbier but like

spk_0 in terms of the basketball I do not at least with the box waving and stretching dayin that directly

spk_0 led to Miles Turner. And if you want to say Miles Turner isn't worth it fine whatever but at least

spk_0 there was a direct basketball purpose for it. I do not understand. This is not more like a vibe

spk_0 shift or at least an attempt at a vibe shift which you pay $50 million to stay away. I mean like

spk_0 really if you have to. Like if the vibes were that bad but from a basketball perspective I think

spk_0 it's a disastrous decision. So the road to redemption from Matt Ischbier begins here right?

spk_0 There is at least a direction here where if it works it works and is there there's say well I think

spk_0 they're saying the right things in terms of trying to build a foundation and development and all

spk_0 these things. It's one thing to say it it's another thing to do it but at least they're saying it

spk_0 and that's why I say like the road to redemption starts here. I don't know if I believe that it's

spk_0 going to happen. I'm just saying like you're starting here. Just to recap their moves really quick

spk_0 too for the audience. They add Dylan Brooks, Jalen Greenmark Williams, Nigel Hayes Davis, Jordan Goodwin,

spk_0 Jared Butler to your point before they drafted Count and Malawatch also added Rochere Fleming in the

spk_0 draft. They lose Kevin Durant, Bradley Biel, Tyre Jones, Cody Martin, Mason Plumley. They obviously

spk_0 got worse. There's no Durant, there's no Biel, there's no Tyre Jones. They got worse.

spk_0 But to your point now we at least know what the direction is because they have that dead cat money

spk_0 for Bradley Biel on the book so long that they kind of have to build around these rookies

spk_0 and these guys on rookie scale contracts because they're it's cheap talent around a guy like Devon

spk_0 Booker. They get Devon Booker to sign that extension which to me is a freaking miracle for Sun's

spk_0 ownership. Like whatever you want to say about the Sun's office and the fact that they got the fact

spk_0 that they got Booker. He does. But the fact that they got Booker to sign that extension is the

spk_0 biggest win. He didn't have to even sign it this summer and he's still recommitted. Now who knows

spk_0 what it means a year from now if he gets unhappy or whatever but the fact is he is happy now.

spk_0 He is under contract. They have so much leverage over him in that way. So I think they got worse.

spk_0 They did it on purpose. I think they if I if I'm going to be an optimist, I like the pieces.

spk_0 I like that they solved the center issue by throwing money at it. We'll see if Mark Williams or

spk_0 Kalamal watch ends up working out but it's still sort of it's a little bit like the Laker situation

spk_0 where it's it's better than what you have last year. But even then though but even then though

spk_0 what I think is the difference between the Laker situation with Aiton and what's going on with

spk_0 Phoenix is if you want to start seeing what you have in Mali watch you have to play him and you have

spk_0 to have the patience to live with his mistakes and really develop them but they're talking like

spk_0 they at least want to win now. I mean I don't mean when a championship I just mean win games now

spk_0 and be competitive now which is something that if nothing else will help prevent Devon Booker

spk_0 from eventually asking for a trade. If you're doing that why are you trading for Mark Williams

spk_0 who at this point you know he's he is extension eligible I doubt he's going to get an extension

spk_0 this season but like you have to give him a fair amount of time on the court. You gave up capital

spk_0 to bring him in so that may create some degree of pressure to reassign him which at that point then

spk_0 again what do you have Mali watch for? I'd like to think that they are looking around for Nick

spk_0 Richard's trades because he's also on the roster shout out to the sons for reuniting the Charlotte

spk_0 Hornets front court rotation. I don't think anybody saw that coming but like there's not to me a clear

spk_0 path with what you do with Mali watch and you know even a guy like Jalen Green who they'll be looking

spk_0 to evaluate what he can do. I know there's been talk about him potentially being their point guard

spk_0 they need a point guard so I guess might as well be Jalen Green but you want to have the best potential

spk_0 setting to evaluate what you have in him and how much if at all you want to be committing

spk_0 but there's a lot of redundancy between him and Devon Booker the guy that is seemingly most

spk_0 important to keep happy like even if you want to look at their moves in the present I think

spk_0 they're roster there's no sense. There's no world to me and they could say whatever they want

spk_0 about Jalen Green where they're going to play him and how much they love him. There's no

spk_0 world to me where Jalen Green and Devon Booker work on a basketball court together. There's

spk_0 just no world where it works. That's what I'm saying. I don't think their roster even as a reset I don't

spk_0 think their roster makes sense. I think they've added talent young talent and I would be surprised

spk_0 if all of these guys are here in two years you know what I mean like I think that might be and

spk_0 for the right I think they did look they shot themselves in the foot with the Kevin Durant thing.

spk_0 The way they hit him with Kevin Durant at the trade deadline was a massive blunder like I don't

spk_0 know the last time we've seen an owner. Maybe the last time was with Bradley Beale I guess was the

spk_0 last time you made a star that unhappy that that same owner. So that was crazy but what they ended up

spk_0 getting for Kevin Durant was pretty decent in terms of asset. It really greener malle watch it's

spk_0 too early to truly know how well they did and I agree there was a seal and it the play you know

spk_0 what it's funny Dylan Brooks I actually think his time in Houston probably didn't revamp his

spk_0 image as well as it should have you know like the Dylan the villain stuff and like I actually think

spk_0 he was pretty solid in Houston like I had had interest in the Lakers looking to bring in Dylan

spk_0 Brooks. I think you'd be helpful. I don't think Dylan Brooks makes a ton of sense

spk_0 for this team like in terms of maximizing him like to me Dylan Brooks makes the most sense

spk_0 on a team that is much more ready to compete like I think Brooks was brought in maybe not solely

spk_0 but partially because you needed the money to work. Yes. I don't think he make again I don't think

spk_0 he makes a ton of sense for this team. I get scared a little bit here with him because it feels

spk_0 like also there's going to be too much there's too many shots available to him on this team

spk_0 which could be a problem as Memphis learned. I would not be surprised in the slightest if Dylan

spk_0 Brooks was flipped midseason because again he does he does not make a ton of sense to me for this.

spk_0 By the way they could get a first they could get like a late protected first for Dylan Brooks or

spk_0 like one of those crazy like five or six second round pick type holes. If he keeps playing the way

spk_0 he played in Houston he has he has value for a team that has business thinking about the playoff.

spk_0 Dylan Brooks for Jonathan Cummings. That's interesting. That is interesting. Let's talk about the

spk_0 Sacramento Kings. They they're the team that got worse on accident as they always do. They add

spk_0 Dennis Truder Dario Sarge and Drew U-Bank some like why are we even saying those last two names?

spk_0 What's the point? They did draft Nick Clifford. We can have more of a Clifford conversation here in

spk_0 a second. They lose. I don't know if I'm doing this in Takeravia. I can't. Here's my thing with the

spk_0 Kings and I don't want to spend a time with them. But like so Fox the light the beam thing

spk_0 completely is it collapses. It's gone. They still have 100 years ago. Yeah they replaced Deer and Fox

spk_0 with Zach Levine for some reason. The subbonus Levine duo is exactly what you think it is. It's

spk_0 awesome offensively according to cleaning the glass 115.2 offensive rating that would have ranked

spk_0 in the league last year. Awesome offensively. And as you probably guessed horrible defensively.

spk_0 They had a defensive rating of 120.2 when those two guys shared the court in Sacramento last year.

spk_0 That would have been dead last in the league by a mile worse than Washington,

spk_0 worse than Brooklyn, worse than Utah, worse than these teams that were actively trying to lose.

spk_0 I don't know frankly how Sacramento gets out of the bottom five defensively this season.

spk_0 I don't see it. I literally don't see the pathway. It is a lot of

spk_0 Keon Ellis and Devon Carter and Nick Clifford just saving the defense and Keegan Murray

spk_0 transforming into peak co-I-line or defensively. Keon Ellis or Keegan Murray. One of them is going

spk_0 to have not both is going to have a nervous breakdown by the end of the season just for all of

spk_0 you defensive responsibilities on their plates. Like I would be so angry you know because

spk_0 Keegan Murray is in extension talks right now or I want to talk about that.

spk_0 Maybe not in extension talks depending on how things are going. I'd be so mad at the kings

spk_0 with all the responsibilities I have in front of me if I'm Keegan Murray it's like you're not

spk_0 going to extend me really. Like all this bleep I got to take care of and you're not going to extend

spk_0 me. Like that might feel more openly disrespectful than some stars not getting an extension.

spk_0 Like just for what the asks are going to be. And that's my biggest thing with Sacramento.

spk_0 Who are you building around? Because before I saw it it was Deer and Fox and Devon to

spk_0 Simone is we're going to build around that two man game and you could think about whatever you

spk_0 thought about the ceiling whatever but I knew okay you're building around those two guys you have

spk_0 your ten pole star that you drafted into your infox you traded multiple players that you didn't

spk_0 think were a fit with him because you loved them and then you traded Deer and Fox the moment he

spk_0 got unhappy you traded them and you still have some bonus there who's an awesome player all in

spk_0 the way. I'm going to be a caliber center I get it but he's 29. Levine is 30. What's the path?

spk_0 Who are you building around Keegan Murray as you mentioned his extension eligible is 25

spk_0 years old so a little bit older here for rookies but are people you know in his draft class.

spk_0 We'll see what he signs it at one amount because if they sign him something close to like 30

spk_0 million dollars Josh can you get 25 million dollars I just want to remind people so when you start

spk_0 thinking 30 million for Keegan Murray he's better than Gidey. If they sign him to an extension

spk_0 around that 30 million number that means that they probably believe in him in the future maybe I'm

spk_0 pretending too much like the Sacramento Kings operate like a normal basketball operation but I'll

spk_0 be interested to see if and they sign him to an extension and if so at what amount and even then

spk_0 like I don't know that Keegan Murray is that guy that you want to build the future for and I think

spk_0 you have to spend a lot of the season figuring that out. I was going to say like I really like Keegan

spk_0 Murray I can see an argument for not extending him that really has less to do with Keegan Murray

spk_0 and more Sacramento if they ever came to Jesus recognizing what the hell are we like

spk_0 we're not when you ask like for like building around like I don't know if they're building for

spk_0 anything like and and I don't mean just the future I mean the present I mean the whatever I can't

spk_0 figure out what it is they're trying to accomplish now or in the future you know that idea of

spk_0 building around De Monticeponus like beyond the fact that he's 29 and chronologically behind

spk_0 any type of methodical you know behind the curve for any type of methodical build I don't know

spk_0 if there's a player in the league that I'm a bigger fan of of what he can do and like respect his

spk_0 talent more and really think he's a very talented player that I can figure out less how to build

spk_0 around than Sabonus like I really don't know how you would do that like other than other than

spk_0 Sacramento Kings did it you would do it by getting a lot of guys who are like Keegan Murray unfortunately

spk_0 only have one Keegan Murray but but even then though like Sabonus as part of a defense like

spk_0 just the defensive side of any build he's super tricky you know and even with all the things he

spk_0 does well offensively and there's a lot of them he's he can't space the floor at all he really has

spk_0 no off-ball utility like you really need the ball in his hands which is fine like it's a guy you'd

spk_0 want to put the ball in his hands except there's like four or five other guys on this team who you

spk_0 really need to put the ball in their hands if you want to maximize them like they're a roster that

spk_0 on so many levels does not make sense whether you're trying to win now or whether you're even think

spk_0 forget thinking five years ahead two years ahead like I just have no idea what they're doing

spk_0 neither do I um I can't I don't even think they got worse than last year like in some ways

spk_0 getting worse might give you more of a clue of what they're doing they they're basically the same

spk_0 level as last year yep and I for the life of me I have no idea what they're doing I like Dennis

spk_0 Shooter a lot as an international basketball player and everything that he's about it does feel a little

spk_0 bit like the what you're hearing coming out of Sacramento it feels a little bit like they watched

spk_0 only Dennis Shooter and Euro basket and we're wondering why I do not like they're like why isn't

spk_0 this guy getting the max like how did we get this guy at such a steal and didn't watch any of the

spk_0 NBA stuff on Shooter I don't even know I don't even know one of these guys by the way who needs

spk_0 the ball in his hands to be effective I was just gonna say I don't even know if it's that deep like

spk_0 the idea of they only paid attention to him overseas and weren't watching the last few years of his

spk_0 NBA career it just feels to me they're like we like guys who need the ball in their hands

spk_0 and it sure needs the ball in his hands so let's add them like I think they don't want to do any

spk_0 the Euro basket stuff we like you distance dentistry like that's what we need yeah I mean it feels

spk_0 like they were like we like having a roster filled with guys who need to have the ball and we want

spk_0 as many of them as once Dennis Shooters of free agent let's bring him in and by the way none of them

spk_0 are shaggyl just Alexander with the ball in their hands right they're all just above average to good

spk_0 with the ball in their hands yeah the Marta Rosen is a really interesting trade candidate to me

spk_0 this seems like a guy who kind of almost needs to get flipped this year so he makes just under

spk_0 25 million this year he's making 25.7 next season but only about 10 million dollars of that is

spk_0 guaranteed and so that's he's a really interesting trade candidate to me I don't know where he makes

spk_0 sense I honestly don't know if he makes sense anywhere frankly but maybe there's an injury something

spk_0 like that happens and in February he makes a little bit more sense somewhere else I would be if I'm

spk_0 sacramental trying to flip to Rosen at some point I also would I wonder what would happen if

spk_0 Keegan Murray doesn't sign an extension if a team called about him and was like we'll give you

spk_0 a decent young player who's a little bit younger maybe we'll give you or maybe there's like a

spk_0 an interesting first round pick that we can give you they should emphasize this young Claire needs

spk_0 the ball and they should emphasize this young player needs the ball in his hands like if they really

spk_0 want to make sure sacramental is interested you know it was really funny was the the name I thought

spk_0 of initially was jaden ivy and I'm like it perfect perfect he's doing ivy for Murray swap

spk_0 chefs kiss there we go all right we hit a bunch of these topics that I gave you on the list but let's go

spk_0 names only on this and like a quick elevator pitch most impactful newcomer we talked about a

spk_0 bunch of them but if you were to tell me who the most impactful one would be who do you got

spk_0 on rate and just and I realized this will sound like or centric like or home rhythm whatever I just

spk_0 with the possible exception of I guess jalen green I don't know if there's any newcomer on a team

spk_0 that has the opportunity to make as big of an impact as deandre and across the league like some

spk_0 of this is just there are only a excuse me across the division it's only a few players who I think

spk_0 actually are in a position to make this type of impact as a so to me it's I think eight and

spk_0 is going to have a pretty big impact but I also think in some ways it's by process of elimination

spk_0 um I don't think you're wrong if I'm going to throw two more names in there I think Dylan Brooks

spk_0 is actually going to have a pretty big impact on phoenix at least in the locker room if you've

spk_0 ever been around Dylan Brooks you know exactly what I'm talking about that guy makes his presence

spk_0 felt and so in one way or another he will make an impact on that sun's team um and then I think

spk_0 John Collins potentially is hazy as the clipper situation might I thought about Collins I and I think

spk_0 like we talked about earlier it's going to be interesting to watch him just because he hasn't

spk_0 played significant basketball in a while I just feel like that locker room is a bit stuffed

spk_0 for him to really have the type of impact that we're talking about but I do like the addition for

spk_0 the clippers I just think it gives them something they've never really had which is a four with size

spk_0 where before it was always kawaii at the four or darychron junior when they went small or nick the

spk_0 tomb or something like that I think Collins probably starts I think he adds a degree of spacing

spk_0 and stuff that I think it really be tapped into with James Hardin in that pick and roll azubach

spk_0 I'm just I'm really intrigued and I've always been kind of I still have a lot of my John Collins

spk_0 stock he's a south guy so I appreciate him the reason I would not say he's going to start or at

spk_0 least I think he shouldn't start is tyloo has already said Bradley deals going to start so between

spk_0 bill and harden um like you're already starting with a back court foundation that is going to be

spk_0 generously put defensively challenged I don't know unless john collins can really show

spk_0 something defensively that he hadn't in uta because why bother um I feel like you need a little

spk_0 bit more of a defensive presence in that spot but I could be wrong I think they should play be a

spk_0 lot of the bench so clearly lu and i are not on the same page with us anyway might be a little bit of

spk_0 we're gonna start you and then we're gonna decide it doesn't really work maybe and then a month

spk_0 into the year maybe you're not starting anymore um season preview section we're gonna rank the

spk_0 teams we're gonna predict how many make the playoffs and then we're gonna talk about which players

spk_0 we're gonna be discussing differently a year from now let's talk about we'll start there with the

spk_0 ranking let's rank these teams in the division one through five how you think they finished the

spk_0 regular season you go first lakers won clippers two warriors three kings four sons five we almost

spk_0 agree completely uh we agree in the on the top three i have lakers clippers warriors um i think

spk_0 the clippers have the best roster i think they have way too many distractions i'm not even really

spk_0 sure they have the best roster because i think they have more depth than the lakers do the lakers

spk_0 luca and lebron and the clippers have kawaii sometimes and james harden all the time but james

spk_0 harden is not as good as luca or lebron so you know what i would say is the biggest uh tie breaker

spk_0 if you're looking because i i think the lakers clippers and warriors will be relatively close to

spk_0 each other in terms of wins i i think the warriors are going to be like probably five four to five

spk_0 to six wins below them but okay i mean it depends on i it's possible it is actually certainly

spk_0 possible and i and i am like i said lower on the warriors than the consensus i just think the west

spk_0 could be pretty bunched up but i it is certainly possible that there could be a gap between the lakers

spk_0 and clippers gap warriors but the reason i would put the lakers over the clippers and the warriors

spk_0 is at the end of the day if you're looking think for things to break the tie they're the one team that

spk_0 has one of their best players in its in his prime and the clippers and the warriors all of their best

spk_0 players are closer to the end of their career than the beginning much less the prime to me i think

spk_0 the clippers win this division if koai plays 60 to 65 games that's the path right the lakers win

spk_0 this division as long as luca plays 60 to 65 games and then you ask yourself which one of those

spk_0 two things are more likely and obviously it's luca and the lakers thing yep so that's that's

spk_0 that's sort of a broken tie for me the clipper and then plus i talked to you about the distractions

spk_0 that i have i still think maybe it doesn't summer in their season completely but it might dock like

spk_0 five wins like three to five wins or something just dealing with the koai thing so that's that uh

spk_0 the warriors we already talked about don't really trust them to stay healthy there's going to be a

spk_0 month where the warriors look like the best team in the league there always is it happens every year

spk_0 but i like to remind people there's also that month where they go like five and ten

spk_0 and jimmy butler and stef combined to play like eight games in the entire month of jane where

spk_0 you're something and it's just like and and it's like the whole world is coming down in

spk_0 San Francisco so um that i have them as a pretty clear number three the place where it is agreed you

spk_0 had the kings and the sons i have the sons and then the kings i don't think it's worth debating

spk_0 it that much i just think that the kings are literally in the middle of please don't ask me too

spk_0 there to me the kings are they're they're face planting they started the fall of the face plant at

spk_0 the end of at the trade deadline last season and they're but they haven't quite hit the sidewalk yet

spk_0 and i think they're just about to hit the sidewalk to the sons they still have devon booker

spk_0 and i think he's just talented enough to make them better than the kings and that's about it so

spk_0 that's that's the debate um how many teams do you think make the playoffs i'm going to say three i

spk_0 feel very good about the lakers and clippers making the playoffs i feel very good about them both

spk_0 being top six seeds um i think the warriors will end up making the playoffs as maybe a six more

spk_0 likely a seven or an eight i would not be shocked if they make if they missed the playoffs but

spk_0 i am reasonably confident they're going to make it in i would be maybe not stunned if the kings

spk_0 made the playoffs but pretty damn surprise i would be flat out jaw dropped if the sons made the playoffs

spk_0 but your not your not should win coach of the decade if if they make the playoffs this year

spk_0 i would be floored if the kings sniffed the play in tournament i i don't i don't see it i don't

spk_0 think they're going to be able to stop anybody um so uh but we agree i have three teams and i i

spk_0 i agree with everything you said about the lakers the clippers and the warriors warriors being the

spk_0 most sort of bubbly of those of those three uh what player are we going to be discussing

spk_0 differently a year from now i have five players on this list we've already talked about the andrei

spk_0 and so he was on the list we don't have to talk about him more i think we could be talking about

spk_0 devon booker potentially differently for good and bad reasons yeah i can see what you're talking about

spk_0 i i think that possibility is there whether it's devon booker's ability to elevate an otherwise

spk_0 very very flawed roster or devon booker may not be much longer for the sons like when is

spk_0 no really when is devon booker going to ask out but either way it's a different conversation

spk_0 yeah and i i see a world where devon booker by the way he's my he's my early prediction i'm not

spk_0 like i haven't written this in pen anywhere but scoring title for devon booker potentially here

spk_0 as long as john zary doesn't get in his way too much um could he be back into like a top 15

spk_0 kind of guy because he's sort of fallen out of that conversation it's been a rough couple of years

spk_0 no all in b a's all stars not there like could he elevate himself back into that conversation where

spk_0 off that finals run we were talking about him as a top 10 player in the league and he's really

spk_0 falling off of that now to where when i'm thinking about him even in the fringe part of that conversation

spk_0 he has all the talent in the world he was right there not that long ago could he get back into that

spk_0 i think it's possible for him with a really strong season um it doesn't sound like you and i expect

spk_0 it but it's possible um koi i guess we're gonna know more about what's going on there so we're

spk_0 gonna be talking about him differently in some way shape or form i hadn't thought about that but yeah

spk_0 but who who did you have here i'll leave my list here i mentioned him a couple times but i

spk_0 think there's a possibility with john collins just because he's a talented player who i think has

spk_0 become very overlooked across the league just because again it's been so long since he's played

spk_0 basketball that people care about um but i think it's possible that on a team that matters and also

spk_0 like you said on a team that has really needed his skill set and hasn't had that skill set in a while

spk_0 i think it's possible that we could be talking differently about collins uh i thought about the

spk_0 possibility with jalen green just because if the optimists about jalen green are correct and in

spk_0 particular that he can be more of a well-rounded player um he is somebody that i think to put

spk_0 generously is pretty polarizing um among people who cover the league and fans and whatnot so i

spk_0 i think he pops to mind i'm not necessarily banking on it but in terms of thinking about players

spk_0 of a certain profile i did think about him yeah i think that's we're gonna learn something about

spk_0 jalen green this year we don't know what it is necessarily but we're gonna learn something i think

spk_0 that's a great call um i have lebron on my list again more of an off court thing but we're gonna

spk_0 be having a different kind of conversation a little bit next year either he's gonna be retired

spk_0 announced that he's going into his final year maybe something there or i mean on a new contract

spk_0 potentially on a new team or going to a new team it's just yeah i was thinking about this more

spk_0 on the court this season but you are the question is yeah yeah i what you're saying is i mean

spk_0 there's clearly going to be a lot of intrigue about lebron this off season there's no question

spk_0 um do you have anybody else on your list because i want to save my last one for no i don't know

spk_0 okay uh we we touched on so many of the players that could have been on this list but here's

spk_0 my last one and this is cheating because it's not a player but Steve Kerr

spk_0 who talked recently about an extension and it sounds like he's not expecting it

spk_0 um it sounds like this is something like that might be broached maybe later in the season

spk_0 or potentially even next summer but he's in the last year of his contract with the warriors

spk_0 as a coaching free agent that's interesting yeah depending on how this warrior season goes how much

spk_0 if i would mean go ahead i was gonna say i would think that he would want to play out the

spk_0 rest of his career for as long as uh staff how many more years does Kerr have if he doesn't get an

spk_0 extension i think i think you're right it's as long as stuff plays um because if he's linked up with

spk_0 staff and doesn't get an extension i i wasn't sure if he's in the final year i he's in the final

spk_0 no i'm sorry i miss i misunderstood you uh he's in the final year of his contract

spk_0 Steve Kerr yeah i would think that because staff is only under contract for a couple more years correct

spk_0 i would think that Steve Kerr would want to be there for the entirety of stef's career and i would

spk_0 think stef would want that as well and i would also really think that if stef told the front

spk_0 office i want Steve Kerr to be there for the rest of my career they're gonna say yes i'd be very

spk_0 surprised if they after everything they've been through with stef i would be very surprised if they

spk_0 would want to risk putting that type of sour context on the end of his career i'd be very surprised

spk_0 before i say anything else as somebody who covered the warriors and knows a little bit about this

spk_0 and what the idea initially was i would also be extremely surprised if stef Kerr and staff

spk_0 curry don't finish their careers together yeah or if at least stef Kerr if stef Kerr isn't the last

spk_0 coach that stuff curry has might be the better way to put that i'd be very surprised to that said

spk_0 if he doesn't have a contract he doesn't have a contract and i think it's worth talking about

spk_0 so again with the footnote being i would be very surprised if stef Kerr was not coaching the warriors

spk_0 next season if this was the last season of him coaching the warriors that being said

spk_0 he's stef Kerr he's one of the greatest coaches of all time one of the most decorated coaches of all

spk_0 time as respected as any coach in the league as a coaching free agent he has a lot of leverage and a lot

spk_0 of value and i think and i was thinking what teams make sense for stef Kerr that would actually go

spk_0 after stef Kerr and i came up with three teams ish the first one was the clippers stef Kerr has a

spk_0 moment snda go he flies back to la and snda go and south uh southern california very often if you

spk_0 were going to do the thing that all these other players are doing at the late stage of the career

spk_0 maybe that's something that he does and the lakers position isn't coming open the clippers one

spk_0 probably isn't coming open they think they like tyloo a lot but if they just if stef bomber just

spk_0 says i'm going to throw the bag get stef Kerr and by the way doesn't matter i don't have to

spk_0 circumvent any caps to get them because there's no limits to coach to coach what's the fun of that

spk_0 that's true we'll figure out another shell corporation but um in the meantime i just thought okay

spk_0 worth being on the list but i don't really think that would be one the other one i thought of was

spk_0 the team that when guys can't get to one of the la teams what's the team they go to the fenix

spk_0 sons um close enough but also stef Kerr has a history right with the fenix sons if the short

spk_0 knot thing doesn't work out and it should be as patient whereas then very quickly does he hold on

spk_0 i'm trying to wrap my head around that possibility is it give me a second that's my point um does he

spk_0 oh my god steve Kerr is available throw the bag at stef Kerr i could 100% see that happening now

spk_0 could i see steve Kerr being like yeah let me sign up for whatever that fenix sons team is i'm

spk_0 going to leave the warriors for that probably not but if guys like it should be a bomber just throw

spk_0 loads of money at him and for whatever reason joe lake up doesn't which again would be surprising

spk_0 here's the thing as long as you mentioned the clippers uh it might really depend if by then we know

spk_0 how this thing is resolved because i can promise you steve Kerr is not going to leave the warriors

spk_0 to join a crippled clippers franchise 100% 100% right here's the last team that was really

spk_0 interesting to me i don't really think he would leave for the clippers of the sons

spk_0 what do you leave for the san Antonio spurs i knew you were going there if miche johnson doesn't work out

spk_0 where even if he does it's not steve Kerr he's got a history with the organization and then an

spk_0 opportunity for a second life of his coaching career i just coached him all time great with stef

spk_0 one multiple titles and now i could do it with victor webanyama and i've the complete opposite

spk_0 player of stef like you can't find a more opposite player which i know for a sicko coach is like yeah

spk_0 addicted i do think that would be interesting i i got to be honest i kind of feel like if steve

spk_0 Kerr leaves the warriors he likely takes a break from coaching and just resets and you know if we're

spk_0 talking about different organizations and regions that he has connections with one another connection

spk_0 is with fil jaxson and fil jaxson often took these gap years and then came back um so you know maybe

spk_0 that's something he learned uh from fil just the the necessity sometimes of taking a year off or

spk_0 whatever and resetting um again i think the most probable scenario is they figure out a short

spk_0 short new contract for steve Kerr that lines up with stef's career signaling that those two are

spk_0 tied together which i don't think either one of them would mind at all we agree i thought i was

spk_0 an interesting thought exercise any kemin enski uh locked on lakers yes panela thanks so much you

spk_0 jumping on man absolutely man this is fun ram hilsman is on the show with me now you're the host of

spk_0 the popular warriors huddle podcast and i wanted to bring you on for a few reasons a i just love

spk_0 talking to you i love talking hoops with you love talking warriors with you and be fascinating warriors

spk_0 offseason and uh i don't think that we're gonna have time to really get into the meat of it when i do my

spk_0 pacific division preview and i kind of look at the division as a whole and i wanted to have you on

spk_0 to get the warriors perspective the fans perspective on just how crazy of an offseason this is

spk_0 the john then commingas stuff weird media day what was to you the most frustrating part of this offseason

spk_0 oh my god i will first let me say appreciate you having me on always love talking to you too and

spk_0 also appreciate you using the word fascinating although i don't mind telling you that as the host

spk_0 of a warriors podcast having to fucking talk about john then commingas over and over and over and

spk_0 over again for what feels like eight years wasn't really super fascinating but uh glad to have it

spk_0 done now um looking back on it the thing that sticks out to me about this john then comminga deal

spk_0 and the the person that kind of frustrates me and i wonder if we'll get into today is i i don't think

spk_0 there'll be a locker room issue it sounded like media day went fine and then all the players kind of

spk_0 understood jk was just going after his bag and that's allowed um the thing that frustrates me is that

spk_0 i think i'll start this in a different way i think every offseason there's an unofficial list of

spk_0 teams less that that list isn't longer than like three or four people and what the list is are the

spk_0 teams that veterans who are looking to rehab their career you know either get a championship at the end

spk_0 or change the overall perception of their game and are willing to take less money to play for a team

spk_0 that'll give them that chance and i i think this season the warriors were going to be a part of that

spk_0 i i genuinely believe they would have been in the in the list of teams who were going after the

spk_0 Marcus smarts and the deandre agents you know and the thing that frustrated me and that stuck out

spk_0 about this jk pursuit is that that's what it cost us you know like when when those dudes were

spk_0 signing in other places the warriors had their hands tied because we had to finish you know this

spk_0 back and forth with jk and so i like the raster i'm sure we'll get into it but that's been the part

spk_0 that's been weird for me and kind of hard to accept i do want to get into the raster um we'll get

spk_0 into it in a second two years forty eight and a half million dollars or whatever it was forty eight

spk_0 forty nine million dollars for johnathan kominga team option on it that was the big

spk_0 sticking point team option player option what's it going to be ends up being the team option

spk_0 kind of felt like it was going in this direction when johnathan kominga's agent started going

spk_0 on podcast and radio shows and saying we're gonna pick up we'll do it we'll pick up the qualifying

spk_0 offer and ultimately they didn't and they um they had to they had to relent and and just take up

spk_0 the team option there uh absolutely right the and that was my perspective as well and i'll tell you

spk_0 so timeline goes rewind it maybe two weeks ago um the we're speeding towards this deadline we know

spk_0 that there's an offer out there jk hasn't responded we haven't heard anything from air and

spk_0 turner and right around there is when cam tomis signed that qualifying offer in brook and when

spk_0 that happened west i panicked i was like it's gonna have like i guess the qualifying offer is a real

spk_0 thing and like we may lose this guy and then when air and turner the agent went on like i don't know

spk_0 a thousand shows and every single show he you could almost tell time by him you'd say and just in

spk_0 case you haven't heard well a hundred percent take that qualifying offer every time he said that

spk_0 i started to believe it less and less you know and by the end of it it's like okay and you've

spk_0 talked me out of it i do not think that this is a real deal and it turns out we were right because

spk_0 here we are and uh not only did he give up the player option but he didn't take the qo so i guess

spk_0 it was all bullshit so he's eligible to get traded in january and all the reporting around it is

spk_0 hey this deal is basically meant to get him through the year on a little bit of a better payment

spk_0 obviously a lot better repayment than the qo and then we'll figure it out at that point we'll

spk_0 figure it out um that said is there a role for john then come in get a play on this warriors team

spk_0 i hope so um i and so let's see i'll give you a incredibly optimistic take and then i'll give

spk_0 you perhaps a more realistic take um optimistic take i hope i mean the the one thing i thought the

spk_0 warriors would not get during the offseason like if you'd given me a multiple choice and i had to

spk_0 pick one word like well this isn't gonna happen older would have wouldn't been the thing i picked i

spk_0 thought there's no way and we did we just welcomed him in 39-year-old al-Horford and so

spk_0 last year was important that we have youth and a slaticism this year it's incredibly important

spk_0 and so i hope optimistically that there's going to be a a specific push my curve and the

spk_0 entire coaching staff to make sure there is a role for jk and he takes off you know um so

spk_0 that's my optimistic view the maybe more realistic slightly pessimistic the uh the go-to radio station

spk_0 here in the bay area is 95.7 again there they're the guys who broadcast the warrior games in fact

spk_0 i think that you were on that channel a few times when you were still covering the warriors here

spk_0 curve was on there and then it was about a month ago and what he said kind of straightforward was look

spk_0 lineups that future jk, draymond and jimmy don't work you know they they just they don't really work

spk_0 and unless curve can change his system or figure out a way where those three do work together

spk_0 i think maybe the biggest value that kiminja offers to the warriors as a trade trip you know

spk_0 and i think all the parties knew that that that's why that player option meant so much to both the agent

spk_0 and the team so jimmy butler is to me the ingredient that push john then kiminja out the door

spk_0 and maybe we were already going in that direction but i just don't see considering that draymond is

spk_0 in sharpie a part of the golden state warriors right you're not getting rid of jimmy

spk_0 okay you can you can get away with lineups with draymond and kiminja it's really hard to get away

spk_0 with lineups of johnathan kiminja draymond green and jimmy butler so when you bring jimmy butler in

spk_0 to me that's the decision of uh two timelines smush my lines we're gonna just we're gonna get jimmy

spk_0 who's right much who's very much on the draymond step curry timeline and we're gonna kind of end

spk_0 this two timeline facade once and for all yeah and that felt like it could have been a clean break right

spk_0 at that point and it's not because of everything that's going on here and the restricted

spk_0 fray agency part of this too but i look at it also in this way i think i i agree with steve

spk_0 kerr obviously i i think you look at the numbers like it just doesn't work right those lineups

spk_0 don't work i don't know that they have to play those lines all the time because you also look at

spk_0 jimmy butler's injury history he's played over the last seven seasons 55 60 64 50

spk_0 seven fifty two fifty eight and fifty five games this guy misses games this guy misses twenty to

spk_0 thirty games a year now bringing kiminja at twenty plus million dollars a year to be back up jimmy butler

spk_0 isn't ideal but if you could find bench units to play kiminja with figure out a way to stagger

spk_0 the rotations where he's only on the court with one of jimmy or draymond i think you can work with

spk_0 one of them i don't think you can work with both of them i think the alohorford and greenian here

spk_0 is really interesting to see how that opens things up for everybody including kiminja potentially

spk_0 and then just assuming okay like jimmy's gonna miss time because he's gonna either get suspended or

spk_0 hurt jimmy's gonna miss time because he's gonna have uh these soft tissue injuries that just keep

spk_0 him out during the regular season steve at this point is missing time like there's gonna be

spk_0 there are gonna be times where this warrior's team is gonna need somebody to score and as we saw

spk_0 in the playoffs like kiminja can get your points now the other part of that is that the warriors

spk_0 lost those games but um i don't know i do think in an optimistic world there is a a place for kiminja

spk_0 i i don't know i think i think you're not only right i think what you are saying is going to be

spk_0 key to the warrior season even as you were saying it right so like the people they've added um

spk_0 all the major pieces on this team in fact here let me say it as a rosy warriors fan

spk_0 i like this roster west more than i thought um and as a 16 game roster i don't think that they're like

spk_0 title favorites but can i squint and see a contender and you know four seven game series sure

spk_0 i like the experience as an 82 game roster i'm worried everyone they added hoorford's 39

spk_0 dianthony melthen if we say his name three times fast his acl snaps you know the i mean

spk_0 steve is getting older um i mean oh there's just injury concerns across the board so getting from

spk_0 game one of the regular season the game one of the playoffs i had the more minutes that we can give

spk_0 to young guys like jk the better chance they have it getting there and so whatever combinations

spk_0 they can find you know i i think that's going to be clutch um and hoorford makes it a little bit

spk_0 easier to put him in because you know we we lost lune i loved kivan looney he's a lot of things what

spk_0 he's not is a shooter and so you know adding hoorford who can shoot the three a little bit may make

spk_0 it easier to put in jk um but we'll find out well let's talk about the roster a little bit uh

spk_0 so they add hoorford the anthony melthen so we've only sent his name twice now so we're okay

spk_0 i'm worried i mean i really we've got to be super careful here also thank you for not mentioning

spk_0 how terrible my camera is i can barely tell who it is on the other side of this i don't know if i

spk_0 like smeared vaseline on it or something but this is not the look i was hoping for

spk_0 got gary paid in the second um that's curry

spk_0 did i miss anybody that's really it that they've added uh that is it three guards in a center

spk_0 essentially and a very happy jk a motivated body and you know a totally different Jonathan coming

spk_0 um there's some lineups that they can get to hoorford at the five i think really they haven't

spk_0 they've been looking as you know they've been looking for a center who could shoot threes

spk_0 forever essentially since steve kirk got hired they've been looking for that guy and we can go

spk_0 through elitina names where they tried and it failed and it didn't work and and guys but now they've

spk_0 got hoorford they've gotten quitten post who showed some things last year there's some lineups that

spk_0 they can get to these guys feel even more essential than they ever have where steve kirk i think was

spk_0 always looking for a five who could shoot threes because i think with like derand steppe and clay he

spk_0 is almost like could we literally just break basket ball and and just see how far we could push this

spk_0 now it feels like we need this we need this to make the lineups work and i think they'll work

spk_0 when hoorford's available on the court and when quentin and if quentin post can make a little bit

spk_0 of a leap and play more like a center instead of a seven foot guard and those things are big f's

spk_0 yes and i think that's why you say when you squint and you can kind of see the outline of a team

spk_0 that can that can be a contender i think that's that might be what you mean there

spk_0 that's exactly what i mean i mean i mean the what you'll hear if you talk to a lawyer's fan

spk_0 who is um stat forward and they're looking to talk you into the roster

spk_0 what they'll tell you is that after we added jimmy butler they went 23 and seven down the stretch

spk_0 they were the number one defensive team in the NBA number eight on offense all of the the type of

spk_0 numbers you'd like to see and they added to that you know and so we're ready to go if you're looking

spk_0 for someone is a little bit more jaded and i happen to be both i mean all of those numbers are

spk_0 true but the other portion of that is that the warriors playoff season started with two months

spk_0 left on the regular season you know the reason they went 23 and seven is because they were desperate

spk_0 by the time they added jimmy and i can tell you now i mean i i think that it's not a secret that they

spk_0 do not want to have to play with that kind of urgency again you know you can't have playoff

spk_0 that last that long um and so there's there's reasons to think okay i can see it i can i can see who

spk_0 they are but there's also um you know causes for concern i mean let's we'll see where this thing

spk_0 goes there and then even we haven't even mentioned it the west is so loaded west um and so i mean

spk_0 even i think we got better but i think that i got multiple teams around us also got better

spk_0 and i'm not sure how we fit in there do you want to ask you a question man uh because i was worried

spk_0 about so one of the things we talked about on the huddle was what do we expect out of jimmy butler

spk_0 on media day you know is he gonna come in a costume are we gonna get emo jimmy or like whatever it is

spk_0 a portion of me thought he might dress up like Jonathan Kamehgan just to fucking do it and he didn't

spk_0 right butler just showed up as jimmy butler is a straightforward appearance you have had jimmy butler

spk_0 in your sporty life longer than i have good fit like is that what does that mean you know like

spk_0 should i be excited is that mean he's locked in does that mean he's bored like what what's going on

spk_0 should i get is there anything i can pull out of it it means i think it's a good thing it means that

spk_0 he's not trying to do something that separates himself from the rest of the group okay and i

spk_0 it felt like for a couple of years there jimmy butler was very much separated from the rest of the

spk_0 group in Miami to the point where he demanded a trade in the middle of the year but it led to that

spk_0 and i'm not saying because he had the dreadlocks the emo jimmy look or whatever is ultimately why he

spk_0 got to the trade but if i was gonna psychoanalyze somebody at the risk of doing it wrong which i

spk_0 probably am that's probably what was going on a little bit there but look jimmy butler the first two

spk_0 years in Miami like everything he said was straight out of the heat culture handbook like every buzz

spk_0 word just in every single sentence he was just exactly what you wanted to hear he was he was basically

spk_0 reading pat riley's book verbatim to the media and i was like this guy gets it he's so

spk_0 perfect heat guy all these things and by the end of it it's sour does it always does with jimmy butler

spk_0 for the record i i don't think the warriors have any illusions of how the jimmy butler experience ends

spk_0 they're very aware of his of his history but they're also aware that part of that history too

spk_0 is jimmy giving an i think an honest effort the first couple of years to fit in and not fit out

spk_0 and i and i i think that's the part of jimmy butler that when you get that you can potentially get

spk_0 something very special the flip side of that is his older injury history is what it is but he

spk_0 looked really good when he's on the court for the warriors i can tell you that the only time i came

spk_0 close to being genuinely concerned about the coming of thing because i thought that it would ultimately

spk_0 work itself out but about i don't know last week sometimes like last week there was reports that

spk_0 jimmy butler was starting to be like wait what's happening and that maybe he was calling the

spk_0 the team the second that happened i started paying it it's like we just like just whatever

spk_0 pay pay come and go whatever the fuck he wants so that jimmy doesn't start getting upset and this

spk_0 rift begins now i thought that was rolling i forget who reported it and i don't want to throw

spk_0 anybody under the bus because i'm sure it was true i do think it was overstated in the way that

spk_0 it got reacted to yeah because i think the really important part that got unsaid in all of that

spk_0 is that jimmy butler and mike don't leave you junior were literally teammates and they are like

spk_0 bros so when jimmy butler calls mike don't leave you junior and it's like what's going on with

spk_0 kamehga it's not like he's calling bob mires and saying what's going on with kamehga let me get involved

spk_0 he's calling his old teammate and it it might have been a completely different conversation that

spk_0 kind of ended up broaching on the topic of john the kamehga so i thought that was way overstated

spk_0 but to your point as it as a as a as a heat guy i was like oh here we go i'm i am sure yeah i was

spk_0 we were a little concerned i'll just leave it that way also i'd appreciate if you didn't say the

spk_0 word bob and mires together we we try to avoid that here in golden state i mean unless unless

spk_0 you can tell me that his kids work for us being because i was told fucking bob mires wanted to

spk_0 spend more time with his family and his children and that's why he was leaving golden state and i don't

spk_0 i don't know i don't know if his kid like holds the lights for him or something but that seems to be

spk_0 total BS at this stage i'm sure his uh my light just dropped that's the sound you just heard um

spk_0 i'm sure the uh yes vn job is justice hard as the warrior's gm job um

spk_0 last thing here bram i don't want to keep you too long on this i want to ask you who's the player

spk_0 you're most interested in and i'm leaving that purposely vague and open ended so you can have

spk_0 as much fun with it as possible so who's the player you're most interested in i'm going to ask

spk_0 you that and then i'm going to ask you what you think the real ceiling of this team is but

spk_0 tell me who's the most interesting player to you is i'll give you a stupid answer

spk_0 Steph um i mean yeah what Steph's entering this portion of his career now or warrior fans recognize

spk_0 that we might never have this again you know that like every play every incredible turn around three

spk_0 all of these things need to really be appreciated because we're going to blink and it's going to be

spk_0 gone forever so you know the person i'm most interested in like basking in their greatness

spk_0 Steph um as an aside i don't know he's not as side as a good continuation of that i'm really

spk_0 interested that Seth joined um i like the splash brothers jokes that we're going to start to be

spk_0 able to make i'm sure that they'll be everywhere uh i like that he's adding a shooter i like that

spk_0 they've always kind of been competitive and now that they're going to be on the same

spk_0 roster so i'm interested in him and then i mean let's let's use a name we've already been throwing

spk_0 around coming up um if the warriors are suddenly going to jump the line of contenders if if you and

spk_0 i the next time we talk let's say it's in February and out of nowhere golden state is towards the top

spk_0 of the standards in a way that we didn't anticipate the reason for that won't be Steph we already

spk_0 think Steph is Steph is not going to be i mean maybe we'll be surprised by

spk_0 whorfford's health but if he's really helping that's not going to be a giant jump what will have

spk_0 happened is kominga has made this leap you know and so i don't i'm not expecting it i wouldn't

spk_0 bet on it but am i interested in watching it absolutely um the ultimate upside of this team i was

spk_0 just looking at the ovars and unders uh i think the warriors number was 46 and a half the for vega so

spk_0 last time i looked at it as far as regular season wins i take the over on that um i am i view them

spk_0 as a very dangerous five or six seed i think that we will avoid the plan i think that anybody who

spk_0 plays us will likely be favored in the playoffs but no one's going to be happy to see us if you're a

spk_0 a fan of the opposing team you're not doing a fist pump when it's us that you have to play

spk_0 and i mean well who knows how everything fits together right but if they made it to the second round

spk_0 and had a completely healthy team um i would consider it a successful season if we had a shot

spk_0 seven game series everybody's healthy we're in the second round that's what i'd like to see again

spk_0 because i got stolen from us last year i want to touch on stuff because i think you're right to call

spk_0 him the most interesting player and i don't think that's boring and i actually think it's the right

spk_0 answer and it's probably way overlooked to your point right i we can't take this kind of thing for

spk_0 granted anymore but before i do that comeinga trade eligible in january talked about it a little

spk_0 bit before but that to me is the big swing piece is if in january comeinga has played well enough

spk_0 and that salary is big enough plus another salary that maybe they acquired over the summer that

spk_0 already exists in the roster can they actually go upgrade at a major spot can they get another wing

spk_0 could they get a center who's not 39 years old and can help them can they get something else

spk_0 can they dramatically upgrade the pizemski buddy healed Moses moody spot in the lineup i don't know

spk_0 but that to me would be really interesting and if they can get the right piece then you might be

spk_0 looking at a scenario where like oh wait a minute uh all of a sudden everything sort of clicks

spk_0 together in a way it didn't really before and maybe this is the the guy who can kind of bridge us

spk_0 into that next whatever and and kind of helps us with some of these matchups in the west so

spk_0 that's one thing and that's why things interesting but you're right about the stuff piece

spk_0 and here's what i always say about stuff in lebron and any of these guys now

spk_0 not about accomplishments for them anymore it's about moments that's all anybody wants

spk_0 nobody's asking lebron or stuff to win another championship except for like ESPN talking heads

spk_0 and that kind of thing where it's like can they win the championship okay whatever

spk_0 nobody's really asking for them to win a championship their legacies are what their legacies are

spk_0 if you are a michael jordan guy another lebron ring isn't going to change your mind right

spk_0 step is where he is he's got the two bookend championships around kevin de rante he doesn't need

spk_0 another one it doesn't change where he is in the all-time rankings maybe a one two spots in your

spk_0 in your list but really what we're talking about not material no

spk_0 what any the only thing anybody wants from these guys anymore be competitive get in the playoffs

spk_0 don't get swept give me a moment lebron those moments in the playoffs where you look like your

spk_0 28 again and it's just crazy that's what we want step the turn around threes the shimmy the night

spk_0 nights just give me one just give me one i just need one of those and i can go to bed happy right

spk_0 yes that's all it is that's all it is and that's why he's the most interesting guy because you're

spk_0 absolutely right we can't take it for granted and i'm rooting for those moments constantly yeah and i

spk_0 mean they a reminder to anyone listening because we do tend to get used to excellence and they

spk_0 sporting setting you know especially someone who's kept up the excellence for as long as people

spk_0 like lebron and steff has it's not gonna last forever we can already see kind of the end and so

spk_0 just make sure to an end occasionally you know soak it up while you can i i hate to admit this

spk_0 but i'm old enough to have watched jordan i want to use so actively plant and i can tell you that

spk_0 i mean i don't i guess i was probably too young to really appreciate it but you didn't you know

spk_0 in like 95 96 like as as he was accumulating all of this greatness i did take it for granted i wasn't

spk_0 considering that i was watching history and when he retired it seemed to brumped i like i wanted

spk_0 another like two months to be like no wait a minute i'm supposed to to like really sit in this and

spk_0 enjoy it and so that's i am doing now what i wish someone had done for me for jordan like this is

spk_0 the bat signal get out there appreciate this because it's gonna be gone and when it is nobody else

spk_0 is gonna do what he's been doing thanks so much jump on man appreciate it mr

spk_0 all in

Pacific Division Preview (with Andy Kamenetzky & Bram Hillsman)

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