The Classics And The Jokes, The House Cars, Abandoning Tech And Customers | Episode 1,019

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to the podcast. We're glad to have you with us. This is

spk_0 Seema Week. Yeah, it is. Happy Tuesday. But from now through the end of the week, you

spk_0 were just going to be bombarded with what the heck is that?

spk_0 Already seeing concepts announced by manufacturers that they're revealing it early because they're

spk_0 so excited about whatever. And I'm predicting a lot of more safari builds off road builds.

spk_0 I mean, I know that's the show anyway. But we're told there's a few reveals that will

spk_0 get people excited. I think car manufacturers are taking it more and more seriously because

spk_0 of the reveal for a certain market, the off-roading market, but cars are kind of becoming a thing

spk_0 too. And I saw that Honda was releasing some motor oil too, like a motor. So anything

spk_0 goes. That's the thing. You walk around Seema and we'll be there. The Wednesday of this

spk_0 week. In fact, tomorrow will actually be there. And so if you're at Seema tomorrow, if you're

spk_0 watching this on Tuesday, you're at Seema tomorrow and you think you saw us, you did. Please

spk_0 say hello. We'd love to say hi. That'd be really cool. There'll be all kinds of weirdness

spk_0 and what's crazy is you and I walk the show. We go pretty quick. We see all our sponsors.

spk_0 It'll be very fun. Yes. We always see lots of crazy stuff. We take a ton of photos and

spk_0 we get home and we're still like, where was that? There's a bunch of stuff there that

spk_0 we're like, I have no idea. We walked every hallway. We've ever saw that. And it's all

spk_0 mad. It's so very vagus. So next week, we'll talk about what we saw at Seema and the crazy

spk_0 things that went on because there's always stuff. But we're going to dive in this week with

spk_0 other things. You had an interesting discovery that you found that I think might be my

spk_0 12th car. I was wondering. That's why I thought. Thank you guys for engaging so much about

spk_0 the 12th car garage and so many of you sent us your garages. And I'll be honest, right

spk_0 after the podcast episode, I think I changed to a mine. And then I started reading people's

spk_0 lists. I was like, well, I forgot about that one, dude. I mean, it's a count going thing.

spk_0 But this is fascinating from a start up called Longbow. Longbow in the UK. They have dropped

spk_0 the Speedster prior, but now they have introduced the Roadster. And I'm wondering if either of

spk_0 these are that 12th car on your list, a space for a small lightweight EV sports car. And

spk_0 here they're doing it. Now Longbow does not have any production set up yet. They don't have

spk_0 anything. They have ambitious goals, just like every startup car company does. And they have

spk_0 to. But right now with the juicy stats, a sub 2000 pound EV sports car with a 52 kilowatt

spk_0 battery, which isn't the biggest battery ever, but it doesn't need to be a small car. And they're

spk_0 saying when when driven in a spirited manner, it would hopefully get at least 200 miles range.

spk_0 I mean, they're claiming 275, but they know what they're building. Yeah. You know, and at

spk_0 least 270 horsepower, which is the recipe because a small sports car like this, you're not

spk_0 committing and doing long distances. I mean, maybe, but you just it's an A to A car. Yes, but

spk_0 but here's just a loop you go do a drive. Go drive charge it. 200 miles is, I mean, one of my

spk_0 favorite routes in my lease on a perfect Sunday morning is about 110 miles, one of my perfect

spk_0 routes from my house. Okay. And when you and I drive up and we do Wolf Creek, one of our

spk_0 places where we're shooting that kind of stuff, we might do 150 in a day. Yeah. Okay. And so there's

spk_0 not there's not that much distance you would drive for something like this. And back to the stats,

spk_0 270 horsepower in the world of EVs is you're not even trying. That's one of your four motors on

spk_0 board. But the Lotus Elise has less than 200 horsepower, the exceed the big boy exceedures

spk_0 and got like 260. Okay. It's the same weight. It's two less than 2,000 pounds here. Those are the

spk_0 right stats. The problem is this is supposed to be a hundred thousand dollar car roughly, I mean,

spk_0 like 85,000 euros for or pounds or whatever. Is it pounds or euros because it's British? Yeah. Okay.

spk_0 It's like $1,000, $1,000 US from a company that doesn't really have anything to make this with.

spk_0 They don't have a manufacturing partner. They're ambitious goals or 10,000 cars by the year 2030.

spk_0 That's nice. Whoa. We'll see. We will see. Let's get a few built first. Yeah. Exactly.

spk_0 A proof of concept and self-testing. Let's see how it goes before we put a stake in the ground.

spk_0 Claim 10,000 cars by 2030. But what I do love is that they're doing it. There's no startup car

spk_0 company that can have everything sorted from design. Everything is ready to go. Yeah. production tooling.

spk_0 We've got a factory. We've got a built-in network and distributorship and you have to

spk_0 bite off all these pieces as you go. So I completely understand, but at least they're doing it. And it is

spk_0 pretty nice looking. It's exciting. The speedster has no top at all. The roadster is not a convertible.

spk_0 I just want to clarify, which is a little weird. They should have just called it a windshield.

spk_0 The speedster has no windshield, no top, nothing. I agree. I agree with speedster, but roadster should be

spk_0 like Targa, maybe. Yeah. Okay. This is the coupe version, which I actually think looks great.

spk_0 And I actually have a photo of it as well from the side because I think it's fascinating to see how

spk_0 kind of bizarre and small this looks. I think the roadster helps it visually. I think it's better

spk_0 looking as the roadster. The speedster looks a bit odd. There's the speedster. It looks cool, but

spk_0 it looks cool. It's a fun. You know, you put a helmet on. You're going to want to helmet. At least

spk_0 some goggles. Yeah, exactly. You know, you know, it's an A to A car, maybe A to B, but you just

spk_0 take it for fun. And that's the whole point of it existing. I'm intrigued by the idea. I mean,

spk_0 people keep teasing this. They keep, I'll go further. I'll make it personal. They keep teasing me.

spk_0 We're going to make a little cool electric sports car. And I go, where is that? Nobody's really

spk_0 done it yet. Or if they do it, they end up with, I'm sorry, we tripped it fell on the sound,

spk_0 3,500 pounds. You know, let's make a small light electric and see what happens. I hope they

spk_0 succeed. I'm a prototype made out of graham crackers. Pretty much. Yeah. Carbord and duct tape,

spk_0 and then we skin it. And here it is. Well, at least they made one that isn't, and I say this

spk_0 is an Elise fan, isn't a rethought Lotus Elise. At least they went. Here's a new car. So that's

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spk_0 Today's topic Tuesday is more predictions. Thank you guys for writing in your 12 car,

spk_0 perfect car lists and other lists. It's been fun to be to see those on YouTube comments and be

spk_0 bombarded by emails. Yeah, it's been really good. Yeah. Yeah. You guys have brought up cars that

spk_0 I forgot about. Totally. I thought what I want, what I really want that it was a fun thought

spk_0 exercise. And then we can say, can we say the Longbow is your 12th car for now as a placeholder?

spk_0 That's this is why I have that placeholder. I want a small light EV. Let's hope the Longbow

spk_0 exists and we're playing in magic made up money anyway. Also, the I thought the discussion on YouTube

spk_0 and in the email account was big with the 12 car garages. I was not prepared for the scale of it

spk_0 on Discord. Our patrons decided this was the new world to live in and it was just I thank you.

spk_0 All of our patrons are on our Discord channel. So if you support the show at all at any level,

spk_0 you're part of our really cool Discord community. So patreon.com, every day driver, you can

spk_0 actually link from our website if you'd like to be a part of that community. It's a really,

spk_0 really cool community. Many of the folks on there become genuine friends. It's really, really awesome.

spk_0 But I was just not prepared. I was not prepared for the level of engagement that that conversation

spk_0 got going on our Discord. Everybody was like my list, my list. People are critiquing each other's

spk_0 list and going, it's funny. I want your car number three in my list. I'm throwing out whatever.

spk_0 It was huge. It was like a dog pile for the last few days. It's been really, really great.

spk_0 But what I like about that so much is that even though it's a fun thought exercise at the very

spk_0 high end with unlimited budgets, I like that everybody is learning about themselves. As you're

spk_0 working through your list and then hopefully being able to apply it to your real world budget

spk_0 for when you are shopping, I think, okay, all right, we've gotten metrics. I'm going to stick to

spk_0 this and I can really apply that future thing. My dad always taught me to like, project yourself.

spk_0 Can you see yourself traveling there doing that event? How do you think you will feel when

spk_0 you're there? And so when you apply this sort of thought exercise to your actual next car,

spk_0 your next budget, hopefully that influences your emails that you write to us. And then also,

spk_0 what you end up getting and you really work on that. But today's top five list is a combination

spk_0 of emails from Petrolhead 2003 and Instagram and an email that we got from Andy L.

spk_0 We're kind of combining both of these and restricting them a little bit more to top five

spk_0 future classics and top five future duds. I called them the classics and the jokes.

spk_0 I like that. Classic classics and the memes. It's ridiculous. But the key thing is we did

spk_0 five, five and five, five future classic. Yes. Five future jokes, duds, whatever you want to call them.

spk_0 But within the last five years, because you could go back and you could guest something from 10,

spk_0 15 years ago. So these are cars that have to have been on sale new within the last five years.

spk_0 Does mean they had to be introduced in the last five years. That gets even harder by the way.

spk_0 But I would say on the last five years, which five we believe will be classics, which five we believe

spk_0 will be just memes jokes. We can't believe that car was ever made. This was fun.

spk_0 The email from Andy L sort of added on to the top five kind of thing here because he brought up

spk_0 five regions, Japanese, American, Korean, German, and Italian. I didn't go that far. Your list

spk_0 probably is better than mine. I didn't quite make it on both lists. And then Andy also said,

spk_0 this could be based on design and styling. This could be, you know, influence everything to make

spk_0 our choice. I like it. Top five classics and top five jokes. The dud cars never came so easily.

spk_0 I was fired away. Well, that's ugly. Oh, yeah, that's ugly too. Oh my gosh. And it just one

spk_0 thing led to the other. So I have actually six on my ugly cars list. And I think I've got a pretty

spk_0 good top five classics list. But I say dive in. I've got a top five classics. I don't give you the

spk_0 reasons for all of these in the top five jokes. Some of them are obvious. And then I actually paired

spk_0 that list down because I really, for the jokes, and I'll get into that further, but for the jokes,

spk_0 I just, their cars that I really think in 20 years, we're going to go really just just that's what

spk_0 humans built really. That's a thing that was for sale. I like classics and jokes. We're going to hop

spk_0 in here on all of this. And for my first one, it'll, you'll probably not be surprised. But I think

spk_0 it's already reaching the status. And that is the Lexus LC 500. It is a classic. It's going to be a

spk_0 classic. I think 20, 25 years from now, people are still going to be buying these and going, aren't

spk_0 these cool. I think that has to be on this list because it's gorgeous looking. And we've talked

spk_0 about it many, many times before. This is not, this is a full on luxury GT car. This is not the car

spk_0 you buy to be your fun car. That's not its purpose. This is a drive daily go cross country. Hey,

spk_0 this road is pretty cool. It is a GT car. And this is as interesting as Lexus gets right now. But

spk_0 the styling is spectacular. It is timeless. And because it's Lexus, I also think it's going to help

spk_0 it be a classic because you're just going to buy them knowing it will run true. So that helps.

spk_0 So on the website is a 2026 model. Yes. And you still there. And you can go find them for like 45,

spk_0 50, the early ones, which is crazy that there's that swap. That's a very cool car. When it, when

spk_0 that it's the other thing I thought about for classics, it's classics. We're going to look back

spk_0 on and be like, Oh, they don't sell that anymore. But the longevity already with this car from

spk_0 2017, 2018, somewhere in there, all the way to now. We're talking like a good 10 year run. Yep.

spk_0 Agreed. Agreed. And I think it's only becoming more beloved as I like the better way to put it.

spk_0 The car industry is moving away from what this is providing. Attractive, naturally aspirated engine,

spk_0 good, good dynamics. I mean, I think I think it's interesting in that regard. The Jaguar F type.

spk_0 Specifically in manual, if you can find it. That is pretty. That's a nice shot. It's a great

spk_0 looking car. And they actually just barely sold the manuals to 2020, which was just inside the

spk_0 refresh. I like the early ones quite a bit. This is actually one of the refresh cars. But the Jaguar

spk_0 F type is one of those cars. Every time we drive it, it's better than we remembered it to be. It's

spk_0 been overlooked. True. True. It's been kind of forgotten. But I think it's one of those cars. And

spk_0 I'm, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not making these cars equivalent. But I think it's one of

spk_0 those cars kind of like the original NSX. I had got overlooked when it was being sold new.

spk_0 Some people bought it. And then in 10 years, everybody was like, you remember how great those were?

spk_0 And all of a sudden they start climbing. I think it's one of those cars. I think the Jaguar F type

spk_0 has a potential to be more interesting later, especially in manual. The fact that they even

spk_0 ever sold this car in manual is kind of amazing. Yeah. So Jaguar F type is a lot of classic.

spk_0 Let's future anything type. Well, two door sports car will be like, well, but also back. Go

spk_0 very badly. Yes. Go very well. Yes. But, but also the other reason this is here is because of

spk_0 where Jaguar appears to be headed. This is also looking back with nostalgia in 10 years and going,

spk_0 Jaguar used to make that, which let's be honest, we've done for the past 50 years with the E type.

spk_0 Save Ferris. Save the manuals. Save Jaguar. Save the anything type. So we need a new joke commercial

spk_0 of Matthew Broderick currently in a Jaguar F type. That's a manual. And then we've got it done.

spk_0 And highly recommended if you can pick one up. If you can pick one up, I highly recommend

spk_0 the exactly right. That's where we're going. Okay. Moving on from that to my next classic,

spk_0 it is the Integra type S. No kidding. I think when they stop selling this, we're all going to go,

spk_0 oh, but those are great cars. That's the thing we all do is enthusiast. And use car sales.

spk_0 Seriously, the thing we all do is enthusiast. We see a car is pretty cool. We decide on the reasons

spk_0 it's not perfect because it's not perfect or for budgets or whatever the reasons are, we don't

spk_0 actually buy enough of them when they're being made and they stop making, we all go, wait,

spk_0 you stopped? But I was just getting started in 10 years from now. These are going to be

spk_0 hanging on to value like crazy. I bet you think so. I think so because I think they're going to be

spk_0 one of those cars that gets discovered consistently over time. Okay. I mean manual transmission,

spk_0 it is the, because we know that the Civic Type R is going to hang on to value with people

spk_0 that want a Civic Type R. We know that. But I think this is going to be one of those sleeper cars.

spk_0 That if you have one of these in 10 or 15 years, people will be like, oh, those are awesome.

spk_0 I'd like your style. Yeah, Integra type S. So that one's on there for sure.

spk_0 Cadillac CT5 Blackwing. Wow. Okay. I don't know where Cadillac's going. Okay. I know they're going

spk_0 into F1, but I was actually just passed with a purpose on the freeway by the Escalade IQ.

spk_0 Really? Yes. Calade. He was very excited about all of the power he had. He wanted us to all know

spk_0 he was powerful. He did it with a purpose. Here he came. Good. I mean, I was in, it was my wife's

spk_0 kind, which is no slouch. But I saw him come. It was just like, you know, but buddy, you just go.

spk_0 You and all of your big electric power and us off you go. But this is a last of the breed car,

spk_0 which also helps cars to be classic. Manual transmission, rear wheel drive, good executive

spk_0 sedan, 6.2 liter supercharged V8. Will this ever happen again? 6.2 liter supercharged V8 with a

spk_0 manual. Even though Cadillac is talking about the CT5 Blackwing will be back, will it still be a

spk_0 6.2 liter supercharged V8? I don't know. I think this is good enough styling to last as well.

spk_0 It's not the LC500. It's not gorgeous. Beautiful. But it's not weird Cadillac. And they've had

spk_0 plenty of weird Cadillac. They have the Escalade EQ. Look, pretty weird. Optic. Exactly. So I think the

spk_0 CT5 Blackwing is going to be one of those cars like the E39M5, where in 20 years we're going,

spk_0 those were great. Oh, you have one of those. Oh, those are so cool. Please tell me the Celeste

spk_0 because on your ugly car list. It isn't, but it could be. Well, I will say this because that's the

spk_0 off spoiler alert. I will say this. I restricted myself from making an all EV list on the joke cars

spk_0 because it was easy to go there with electric. I got one in that one. I got to stop. I limited

spk_0 myself to two electrics out of my five. Yeah. Because it was easy with electrics. Anyway, moving on,

spk_0 my last classic car that I think is going to be a classic has got to be the C806 because I think

spk_0 this is going to get overlooked for a little while. You have the standard C8, which they're going to

spk_0 sell in volume and already are an excellent car. The standard C8, we just sold ours. Congratulations

spk_0 to Marilyn, the new owner. It is she got a phenomenal car. It's great. Yes. Just left us and it's

spk_0 such a great car. The minute we drove it to her to pick up, we thought this is a great car.

spk_0 It's a great car. But they're going to sell a ton of those. The 06 was the bell of the ball

spk_0 for five minutes until they announced the ZR1. And now the ZR1 is out. The ZR1 will be a collector's

spk_0 item no matter what. There'll be one wrapped in plastic at Barrett auctions in 20, 20 years. All of them.

spk_0 There's going to be guys at your local cars and coffee with the C8 and 20 years. That's a

spk_0 base one that they're going to try to convince you is special because it had a special paint color

spk_0 only made one of them on this Tuesday. That only count little happened. But the 06 naturally

spk_0 aspirated flat plain crank and able to be your track car or your daily. This is going to be one of

spk_0 those cars like the C6, 06 that I think some people bought it, some people overlooked it. And then

spk_0 in 10 or 15 years, like, you know, you can get one of those for this amount of money. Oh, those

spk_0 are awesome. We should get one. They don't make that anymore. C8, 06, I think is going to be the

spk_0 overlooked child for a bit and rise to interest later. That's good list. Do you want to do your

spk_0 classics? You want me to jump off? I'll do the classics first. You should jump in your classics.

spk_0 We'll start with start with those. I am going to start out with consistently the car. I've called

spk_0 the prettiest car currently on sale on the prettiest car in generations. It is the Amira. What I like

spk_0 is that I didn't bring this up. Thank you. I've thrilled you like it that much. Look at this. There's

spk_0 zero porches on either of my lists. Classics or Uglies. All right. All right. Classics or jokes.

spk_0 So I'm starting out with this Lotus Amira. This surfaces the proportions you walk around. There

spk_0 isn't an ugly angle. Every shot is a money shot. You look everywhere and you're just, you're intrigued

spk_0 by the details. The crisp themes and the washouts and how they intersect. It is so superbly done.

spk_0 And I'm admitting right now that many of my choices are influenced by styling. Of course.

spk_0 But that's why you buy a car. And the biggest reason people love cars and trade them out is because

spk_0 they are a statement of your style. That's what Harley Earl established in the late 20s. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. 1920s. It's been a minute or two. It's been a minute or two. Yeah. Cars are a fashion item.

spk_0 That is an extension of us. It is the styling reflects what the car can do. And so none of these cars

spk_0 are necessarily tens and every category. You know, on a track or on a great mountain road or

spk_0 but it's that desirability factor that is mostly influenced by styling. So Amira is top of my

spk_0 list. I love that you think that. I actually kind of think it but I also wasn't going to say it

spk_0 since I own one but I love that it affects you that much because I will say it's for you. I think

spk_0 it's so great. Just gorgeous. And next on my list, the LC500. These two were very close for me.

spk_0 What a classic. What an instant classic designed by Ian Cartabiano. He was a classmate at Arts

spk_0 Center just ahead of me and he has gone on to lead Caltys Design Studio. So that could be why I'm

spk_0 liking a lot of Toyota's current designs as well. I think everything about this, there's lines on

spk_0 there that would suggest they would age poorly. But as a whole, you know, unique car. Sure.

spk_0 As the finished product, everything works well and interacts so well. That is a hallmark of a

spk_0 great design, not just proportion, but what those lines do as you walk around the car. So again,

spk_0 no bad angles on this car. It's really good. Yeah. Moving on to the current Aston Martin.

spk_0 Really? 2025 Aston Vantage. Okay. I liked the vantage when it came out. This new style. It was

spk_0 about five years ago when it came out. It was the refreshed vantage. I liked it enough,

spk_0 but it wasn't resolved to my eye. You really didn't like it. When it first came out with this

spk_0 weird bottom feeder trout nose after the one that I love, the early, the early and all. It's one

spk_0 of my all-time favorite cars. I would totally own one and I've wanted them since they were new and

spk_0 couldn't afford one. And then they brought it with the next one. I was like, why is that ugly

spk_0 all of a sudden? Because the weird bottom feeder snout and they've slowly revised it. I will admit,

spk_0 it's gotten pretty. It is beautiful to my eye. It's got the Mercedes power plant now in 2025. It's

spk_0 boring. The shapes are very clean and precise, but for that reason, I think it's going to age very

spk_0 nicely. It's not a lot of lines going everywhere and a lot of surface breakup that lower price cars,

spk_0 like the $30,000 sedan market, has to sort of entertain the customer. Why am I buying this?

spk_0 It can't be boring. I've got to be entertained. It's got to be stuff to look at. This is a classic

spk_0 instantly with these new design revisions. I think it's absolutely spectacular. Moving on to

spk_0 something that cannot be ignored. The RF in particular, the MX-5 Miata RF is an instant classic.

spk_0 Okay. All right. That's good. Just gorgeous. I mean, you can barely see the rear end of the car.

spk_0 This is, I kind of wanted to show both, but this is the current ND styling and that flying

spk_0 buttress on the RF car. Absolutely. You walk around the back and you just go, oh, that's just

spk_0 pretty. What's interesting about this design, it works on that tiny shape, but if that car were

spk_0 twice its size, it would still be attractive. Yes. The lines are so good. Being diminutive helps

spk_0 it, but the lines are so good, you could have a large version of that car, and it would still be

spk_0 attractive. Yeah. All right. Moving on to fifth on my list. This is more of a personal choice for me.

spk_0 Very influenced by styling and design, but I was captivated by the Genesis G90, the current

spk_0 large sedan, not just proportionally, but what Genesis has done to introduce new themes on an

spk_0 old shape, an old three-box shape, the sedan. You got the hood, you got the passenger compartment,

spk_0 you got a trunk. Designed something that isn't a three-box shape, that really is cohesive and

spk_0 beautiful. Again, my choices are very design-driven, but I think this has the potential to be on the

spk_0 same level as what we love about the late 90s, early 2000s BMW 740 IELs. Whoa. I think it's

spk_0 all right. Absolutely overlooked right now by many people in this market, and it's just a beautiful

spk_0 object to have in your life. The more you study it, the more appreciation you have for the

spk_0 sensitivity on this car, and it's not great to drive, but it's great to drive. It's just great to

spk_0 be in, and I think this is on my list for that reason. Since you're listening to us, you'll end up

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spk_0 Search on any device in your browser or as an app for Apple iOS and Android. New,

spk_0 used or unexpected auto-tempest is how we search for cars. Go to auto-tempest.com slash every day,

spk_0 so they know we sent you. Autotempest, all the cars. One search. I gotta jump into the jokes here.

spk_0 This is one of those cars that, oh, it divided people so much, and that is the Cybertruck.

spk_0 I have to talk Cybertruck. Up until the moment it came out, there were two parties. We had a two-party

spk_0 system. I couldn't wait to be more excited about this thing. It's going to revolutionize

spk_0 going to be the greatest thing. Pickups are old and stupid and those of us going,

spk_0 what we really do with this? Yes. You read one of those two camps. Yes. And then it came out,

spk_0 and the camp stayed, but they got farther apart. The folks that were convinced it was going to be

spk_0 awesome. It was awesome. It was the great. Have you seen? Have you heard? Oh my gosh, you've got to

spk_0 be kidding. This is going to, it's going to outsell every vehicle ever made. I mean, literally,

spk_0 we had comments like this on some of our videos, how just way to year when this outsells everything

spk_0 else in the market. There was legitimately a comment on one of our videos that was that. And I was

spk_0 like, really? Because I was firmly in the other camp, which is, badly did you do this, but it still

spk_0 looks like that. And I think we can all agree now. This is a sales disaster. Okay. And I have to

spk_0 come back to the thing that I said on camera when we first drove it. There are some incredible

spk_0 engineering accomplishments in this. And clearly, we have engineers tasked with doing incredible

spk_0 things. This is, this is what Elon Musk is known for now. It has been documented that he gets on

spk_0 stage and just says, we're doing this. And engineers somewhere behind the scenes are like, we're

spk_0 doing what? They haven't even heard, hasn't been brought up at a meeting yet. They're like, we're

spk_0 doing what now. And then they have to go figure it out. So this suggests, yet again, with the

spk_0 Cybertruck that the best engineers out there are working at Tesla. They are working themselves to death.

spk_0 Yeah. Well, yes. But this is a joke of a vehicle. It is a joke. I mean, you don't even have to

spk_0 look far to see all of the problems, all of the returns, all of the piled up inventory. I think

spk_0 we can agree now not a successful vehicle. But wow, why do I keep seeing them everywhere though?

spk_0 Well, but not a success. And there's a lot around here. Do you see one that isn't being used as a

spk_0 billboard for a business? Very few. Like one in 10 is not wrapped to advertise a business. Yeah. And

spk_0 we see a decent amount. But it's always an advertisement, which I think it's crazy. So anyway,

spk_0 there, but in a similar vein, my only other EV because I could I literally I had a list of five

spk_0 EVs for even started. And I was like, I get I get it back it off. It's too it's it's too easy.

spk_0 The Hummer EV. Now this this also speaks to the other thing about all of these joke cars. Because

spk_0 the other thing about all of them, you'll note that the trend here is all of the cars I'm bringing up,

spk_0 their manufacturers were really excited about them when they came out. The brands that made them,

spk_0 these were not cars that were released to no fanfare. These were cars that were released all

spk_0 five of my cars were released to a have you seen what we did? Have you seen our new whatever?

spk_0 The Hummer EV gets announced with a lot of GM fanfare. We're going to remake the Hummer the least

spk_0 efficient vehicle ever ever. Okay, nothing about the original Hummer economy was irrelevant that we,

spk_0 you know what we will break. This was literally the American military thinking. And I'm not saying

spk_0 this is the wrong thinking. It's just literally the thinking was we will ring gas to the desert.

spk_0 We'll just bring gas with us. We know it doesn't work. We'll just, you know, we'll haul the tankers

spk_0 to fill the Humvees. Yes. Totally inefficient. Becomes a phenomenon. They bring back the most

spk_0 inefficient brand on the planet as an EV claiming it has EV cred claiming it has. Anyway, but then because

spk_0 it's EV, they can make it crazy powerful. So they have WTF mode, which we all know what that

spk_0 means. But if you're an actual company, you can't have that on your product. So it means watts to

spk_0 freedom where it gets this. Which weighs nearly 10,000 pounds down into the three second range zero

spk_0 to 60 and it crab walks, which no one actually needs looks cool and a commercial. No one needs that.

spk_0 Here's the thing. If you come up to a couple of rocks in the back country,

spk_0 you don't go crab walk around. You just go over them, especially in this thing. Yes.

spk_0 No, you don't. No, you don't. So anyway. So the other thing about this Humvee, the reason I think

spk_0 it's a joke is because I have seen a few. We haven't driven it. I will admit. I've seen a few

spk_0 and nothing about this has the build quality or presence of a hundred thousand dollar vehicle.

spk_0 Nothing about it. Agreed. Yeah. So Humvee. That's my last of my e-d's. I could have kept going with

spk_0 EV. But I didn't. I went to other cars where it was like, what were you thinking? Manufacturers were

spk_0 excited about this. This is the Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross. You're trying not to laugh. Okay. Now I

spk_0 would admit I also found a bad picture of purpose, but that was the whole exercise. I'll find the

spk_0 nearly two thousands. Okay. They had a portfolio of product and they had cars that were interesting

spk_0 to the enthusiast. And we've talked about it recently. The Eclipse was one of them. When the Eclipse

spk_0 crant came out, we were all like, wait, what? Now that's really cool. All the first Eclipse. I know.

spk_0 They sold a lot of them. They had all-wheel drive, high performance versions. The Eclipse was a thing.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. That 90s version. Yes. Yeah. But my point is that's a name that has cred. Mitsubishi

spk_0 re-releases the Eclipse as the Eclipse cross. Yet another five-seat SUV thing that should have been

spk_0 a wagon and isn't a wagon and doesn't know what it is. Plus, it has an obnoxious front end on it.

spk_0 And I'm not showing a rear three-quarter shot because that is potentially worse.

spk_0 Okay. This, and this was too much fanfare. We brought back the Eclipse. No, you didn't.

spk_0 This was also designed probably before any AI influence.

spk_0 Yes. Still that looks like this. Still looks like this. So anyway, if you click

spk_0 the crossing, moving on to more, what did you do here? And that is BMW with the seven series,

spk_0 the current Beaver-Teeft seven series. Just travel back in time with me to the Pierce Brosnan

spk_0 era of James Bond and the big seven series, slab-sided seven series, the 50, the 40,

spk_0 those phenomenal looking seven series that I think are all still living in our brains.

spk_0 As just this is what a seven series can be. At that point, that was the coolest executive sedan

spk_0 being made. There was not a cooler one. And it was mostly just that great styling, which there's

spk_0 a guy in my neighborhood that has one that car drives by still cool. Still unbelievable you're looking.

spk_0 Okay. Now we're here. The current seven series. I don't care how big the rear screen is.

spk_0 It's TV sized. I don't care how awesome the stereo is. It's like 40 speakers. It's

spk_0 ugly. It's heinous looking. Yeah. And it looks like they just don't care anymore. We just put

spk_0 the tech on it and wherever the piece is end up, that's the styling. Oh, by the way, we'll chrome

spk_0 the Beaver-Teeft. What happened here? The fact that the same company made that really cool seven

spk_0 series. I know I'm ranting. Billy, it's good. It's good. It's good. In the late 90s, early 2000s,

spk_0 and now they're making this and they're trying to pass this off as this is what you should be buying.

spk_0 This is the Emperor has no clothes. If you get a guy in the showroom, you convince him to buy this.

spk_0 It is. The Emperor has no clothes. You have somehow convinced him. And if anybody buying this,

spk_0 like, I think it's really pretty, that is you have lost your mind. All right. I'll get the

spk_0 iPhone. So anyway, so yeah, the seven series, current seven series. I just, what's even going

spk_0 on with those lights? I know lights can be small now, but they're like layers of what they're like.

spk_0 Where did the main light come out of? I've been to the hole. And then there's just, there's holes

spk_0 on the side for the handles. Yeah. There's all kinds of bad decisions in one thing that is designed

spk_0 to be your flagship. Wow. And then while I'm here, I also can't believe what's happened here.

spk_0 My last one of the jokes, and I think it's going to be a joke over time. The updated mini countryman.

spk_0 Oh, yeah. This, this, this looks like a half thought through EV concept. And instead of being

spk_0 any of what I've just mentioned, they have gotten the mini brand to be big cars now. They're

spk_0 indistinguishable anywhere in the lineup. They're indistinguishable from other cars being sold

spk_0 as far as size is concerned. And the styling has become less interesting. And this styling,

spk_0 I'm just, I mean, here's even the Cooper, the actual Cooper coupe is too big and looks weird.

spk_0 But this is the most egregious one for me that the countryman used to be this interesting

spk_0 alt that you bought. This is quite interesting because you cover up the badge on the nose.

spk_0 What is this car? Agreed. Car designers look at everybody's looking at everybody. That's a

spk_0 cool shape. I'd like to incorporate that. But it doesn't necessarily play to brand. And you see

spk_0 so many concepts with, hey, it's the new thing, the new Ferrari, the new whatever. And it has no

spk_0 feel of what Ferrari has established throughout the years. Now, there's some companies that don't have

spk_0 a prior established look there to new. Yeah. Fine. They can kind of do whatever. But for this,

spk_0 cover up the badge on the nose. And this could be any car. Absolutely. Anywhere on the planet.

spk_0 Absolutely. And many was one of the rare brands that had a style. Yeah. You just knew what

spk_0 a many was in the marketing people leaned into that and promoted that and people bought them for

spk_0 that. And you have walked away from it and you have this countryman, which I'm sorry, but I cannot

spk_0 think of a single compelling reason if you were a prior mini buyer to even look at this. And I think

spk_0 in 10, 15 years, it'll be one of those cars you don't even see on the road. It'll have all the same

spk_0 safety features, same number of airbags, same number of cup holders. It'll probably drive very

spk_0 similarly. It comes down to price and style. Yeah. I mean, yeah. What's compelling about this?

spk_0 Whatever chassis this is on, I think it's the X1, but X1, X3 doesn't matter. Whatever chassis this

spk_0 is on, I would just say as much as I'm not a fan of BMW styling right now, buy the BMW because

spk_0 you're not buying anything many here. Anyway, so that's my last of my list. Great list. And I again,

spk_0 stuff. I had like seven EVs and I was like, I got to slow down. I'm just going to live it myself

spk_0 to two onward. Well, starting us off with not EVs, I'm with you. There are a few, but this is

spk_0 equal opportunity ugly because it doesn't matter to me what the powertrain is. Yep. It matters again,

spk_0 desirability styling, certainly how it drives. And topping my list is the new Nissan Z.

spk_0 I'm sure you're going to get you're going to get letters. People will disagree. You get letters,

spk_0 there's going to be people in the comments right now. It's decent to drive. It's moderately fun.

spk_0 And I cannot explain why Nissan Z sales have suddenly exploded in comparison to the, I guess,

spk_0 the end of the life of the the GR Supra discounts. I suppose it's too much discount, but

spk_0 it's too many discounts now. That's really where we are. But if it's just price and you were waiting

spk_0 for this recipe and price is the only thing that matters, there's still some other options on the

spk_0 market. I also, you know, I this. You know what else I think's happening here. I actually think

spk_0 that the market rubber band, I'm just guessing here, the market rubber band, initially there were,

spk_0 they were in the news, there were none available. And if you could find when it was massively marked up.

spk_0 And I think everybody that was vaguely interested walked away. And then the market has recovered. And

spk_0 now I think there's some of these sitting on your lots and you're commuting by them and going,

spk_0 they have one. Yeah. I think that I think it's actually people seeing them sitting on a lot and

spk_0 knowing it's actually available currently right now, especially if they have more than one. It's like,

spk_0 I could go in and make a deal. That could be. I think it's a factor. Yeah. Keep going. We like the

spk_0 Nismo version of this. The Nismo version is the only way the New Z should have been offered.

spk_0 The best version shouldn't even been built. I agree. But the promise to my eye when this was

spk_0 introduced when we first saw the New Z. And this is what it's going to look like. I already thought it

spk_0 looked dated. I already thought they shot themselves in the face with bringing this out. Now,

spk_0 Nissan was in a place where they couldn't do too much new brand new chassis development. So they

spk_0 kind of had to take some of the old stuff. A lot of it's based on the 370 Z. Let's cobble together

spk_0 and get a new model and make a few changes at low cost to get it out. And that's business decisions.

spk_0 For sure. And they put a great engine in it. Great engine. The fact that it just did all of that's

spk_0 amazing. Yes. Truly. But but this already this isn't very old. And it already it looked dated

spk_0 when it came out. I looked at this and thought I it already looks old to my eye. And I don't know

spk_0 that this is going to age very well because I think there's a little better lighter more engaging cars

spk_0 currently on sale and that will surpass this so easily. So if it just comes down to price.

spk_0 I suppose used great bargain. But again, there's other choices used that will still be more fun.

spk_0 I just it didn't really speak to me as a driver. It didn't speak to me stylistically. It just seemed

spk_0 rehash. Let's just half-hearted effort. They everything was so specifically referenced on this car.

spk_0 They were referencing all the Zs that came before. Two on the nose versus just trying to make a good

spk_0 looking version of this car. Yeah. I think that really it's forced. I see that. I get very forced to

spk_0 me. Second on my list, I was looking for something Italian. And even though I'm a big fan of Masarati.

spk_0 Ooh. I don't think the MC20 is going to age very well. Hmm. I think these are going to get

spk_0 very cheap. I think people will look down their noses. Well, it's not a V8 supercar. It's a twin

spk_0 turbo V6. Even though the power is incredible. It's very fast. It's actually surprisingly good to

spk_0 drive. It's good to drive. I don't like the brakes, but surprisingly good to this.

spk_0 It's horrible, but I don't know that this is the best example of what the most beautiful Masarati

spk_0 can be. I feel like it's of its time. And I think it will be overlooked and just not a compelling

spk_0 thing to go back and buy used. I keep thinking about, man, what if I had an MC20? And then about five

spk_0 more cars pop into my mind that I would rather have. Okay. All right. Even money aside.

spk_0 Yeah. Not even just equivalent dollars. I think MC20, that would be cool. Well, you know,

spk_0 it would be cooler is. Yeah. Okay. And I think it will continue to be that. My runner-up was the

spk_0 Fiat 500X, but that is too easy. That is low-hanging. It's easy. It's easy. It's already a joke.

spk_0 Yes. Really. The conversely from Masarati, the grand toismo, beautiful, gorgeous,

spk_0 excellent to drive. Yeah. It's too expensive new. Use those will be a bargain. And I think those

spk_0 will be great long term. Interesting. Okay. But here, using the same engine, I don't think these

spk_0 are going to age very well. And I don't think customers will be interested in Masarati is currently

spk_0 wondering, why aren't we selling more MC20s? Why aren't we selling more of these cars? They're being

spk_0 too protective. They're being too secretive and trying to treat Masarati the brand like Ferrari can

spk_0 get away with or Lamborghini and treat the customers like, well, it's so special. Is it?

spk_0 Is it because there's better cars to drive? Okay. All right. That's controversial, but I like it.

spk_0 Now, I need to have you know that Todd and I never consult each other on our list before we start

spk_0 the podcast. We don't. Ever. Yeah. It's part of the fun. The reason I was laughing earlier,

spk_0 is because of the overla�. The more I see these, the SUV, the truck version, and the more I think

spk_0 about, what was the design, the meetings, the entire gestation of redoing the brand, bringing the

spk_0 Hummer brand back to life and so many red flags, I guess, but just milestones of just, here's how we

spk_0 should actually approach. We're driving toward the cliff. 200 meters. 100 meters. Yes.

spk_0 We're still driving toward the cliff. Blue right past all these warning signs. Just throttle down,

spk_0 baby. No, WTF, buddy. WTF, watch to freedom all the way to the cliff edge. Yeah. Hummery V. Yeah.

spk_0 Nothing really is about is really compelling and everybody will try to convince us. No, no,

spk_0 it just drives so great. It's the best truck ever for about five minutes. Imagine this.

spk_0 You're proposing the design meeting. We have to back off on the weight slightly so we don't have

spk_0 to require our customers to get a CDL because it might exceed 10,000 pounds and there's some bridges

spk_0 in the Midwest United States that this cannot be driven over because it will collapse the bridge.

spk_0 It's so heavy. You know there were both memos and meetings about that. Whatever. We blew right past

spk_0 those warning signs. Let's just keep going. Yeah. The battery pack. The battery pack that weighs

spk_0 as much as your average car. The battery pack weighs like 3500 pounds. Just the battery pack by itself.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's stack up two battery packs while we're at it. Let's stack forward and see

spk_0 what we come up with. This, this one is so so blatantly obvious and we do see them in Park City.

spk_0 We see them in the original Taga Form truck form and also in the SUV form and I also have to say

spk_0 you go by I feel like any actual big Chevy dealer lot and they have these sitting in the lot.

spk_0 They're available. We have not driven them as you said but it's the perception of everything

spk_0 from the powertrain to the styling everything about this such a giant turnoff because then a

spk_0 company like Rivian comes along and pretty much out does everything. Yeah. And it's too heavy but

spk_0 it's 3,000 pounds lighter. Which is crazy. And that wow. There's some impressive fresh take-on things

spk_0 and they didn't need to double stack the battery and I don't think these things will be worth very

spk_0 much use and I don't think people will want to buy them. Well, but also we're talking about the

spk_0 jokes. I mean 10 years from now this is going to be a joke car. Yeah. It is. What do you do with this?

spk_0 Is this the future YouTuber car for you got it for $12,000 and somewhere right now as we record

spk_0 this or when you listen to this I guarantee you some owner is talking about the crab walk feature

spk_0 but they've never actually needed it'll do it. They'll do it. Actually needed me show it off in

spk_0 local parking lot of the Walmart. They're going to show it off as a way to get into or out of a

spk_0 parallel parking space. Yeah. Anyway, but that isn't the vehicle that I load the most. Okay.

spk_0 We overlapped in reverse order. The cyber truck is back. Cyber truck belongs here too because the

spk_0 more I see of these, the more I see them driving around, the more I load this thing I do not like

spk_0 the styling. I do not like and I'm throwing out Tesla. I'm throwing out Elon Musk. I'm just as a

spk_0 vehicle. Sure. And I have to acknowledge you're absolutely right. There's some technological marbles

spk_0 here. There's wow. That was really well thought through. But the end result makes it feel like an

spk_0 EV Aztec. Yes. That's a great description. Yes. And you're right. If you separate it from all of

spk_0 the hype and the politics and the whatever, everything doesn't drop from the sky. It doesn't matter

spk_0 what brand. Here's a design. Are you kidding? It doesn't look good on the road. There's no angle where

spk_0 it looks good. Fourcing stainless steel to be the material of choice to build this thing out of

spk_0 to have, but it overcomes everything. It can out accelerate everything. Everybody claims,

spk_0 well, you'll never go back to normal steering. Yeah, I will. Yep. I mean, I'm amazed with what they

spk_0 did. I'm fascinated by it. It's amazing. It's unbelievable that you did this drive-by-wire thing

spk_0 in the steering works. Yes. Different speeds. That's incredible. If you like that, great.

spk_0 Choose it. Yeah. But I don't. I have to temper this because I admire what Tesla has done,

spk_0 but again, it feels so forced. Nothing about this is, comes easily. It's so forced to

spk_0 be forced to happen. Yeah. And then running into things like the wiper just flies off or just

spk_0 inverts itself in a rainstorm and it becomes useless. But sorry, you start trying to...

spk_0 All the time. The number of things that you won't believe that this happens. Yes.

spk_0 Try it in two things that just work. Yeah, it's not innovative necessarily, but then the innovation

spk_0 hasn't been so well thought out that we just tried it and you the customer have to live with it.

spk_0 Sorry. Yeah. I took the money though. It feels like some brand. Tesla, whoever, some brands,

spk_0 new moonshot thing. They aren't going to sell, but they're going to show you all the cool stuff

spk_0 they can do. And it's just the weird design to get everybody to notice at the auto show and to

spk_0 get all the press. We're not selling that. We're not selling that. We're just showing you what we

spk_0 can do and all this technology is going to trickle down into our more normal cars. This is Tesla

spk_0 selling that thing that shouldn't have ever been sold as just kind of the look everything we can do.

spk_0 And the everything they can do, impressive, but it's wrapped in that package.

spk_0 It looks like that. And it keeps looking at that. And here's the thing. I don't care how you

spk_0 wrap it. I don't care what color you wrap it in. I don't care what billboard you put on it.

spk_0 Every time I see one of these in the wild, it looks weird. Every time I see one photograph though,

spk_0 it looks like a digital creation. It doesn't look like an actual photo. It looks like AI.

spk_0 I don't know what to photo. Is this origami? It's so funny. It looks like an 8-bit thing in a real

spk_0 world. Anyway, yeah. Again, the equal opportunity ugly. It wasn't necessarily pointed at EVs.

spk_0 But BMW has gone through the series as well. Oh my god. The seven series and the i7 in particular,

spk_0 they are very close to each other showing here is the i7. The seven series was always described to

spk_0 me as the aspirational car. BMW wants to start you out with the three series. And as you progress

spk_0 through your earning potential and your career, you move up to a five series. And then,

spk_0 oh man, that showroom, they've got a new seven series. I can't wait to become middle management

spk_0 or executive and move on up to a seven series. Why why this? This...

spk_0 It's hard to describe. Making a great point. Let's take the front of it off.

spk_0 Pretty much anything would look better.

spk_0 Well, but also to that point, even if you replace the front end on the seven series,

spk_0 nothing about the rest of the design looks like anybody cared. The rest of the design looks like

spk_0 we just we phoned it in. Absolutely. But the rest of the design, let's take styling out of it.

spk_0 Mechanically, yeah, there's other cars that will do this. Yeah. There's the 760.

spk_0 Well, they discontinued the V12. So it just has that twin turbo V8 in it.

spk_0 Yeah, there's other big sedans that are powerful and fast. I mean, the G90 is one of them,

spk_0 in my opinion. But hey, we've got this and you just don't understand the thinking, the progression

spk_0 and where we ran off the rails. It's like they call GM and we went way off the rails. We just

spk_0 blew past these warning signs. We'll follow you off the cliff. Oh, for it. Here we go. Let's go

spk_0 together. We'll hold hands. You know, you had to walk by the G90 that you brought up. You had to walk

spk_0 by the current Audi A8, which by the way, isn't the best looking A8 by a long shot, but you walked

spk_0 by it. It's the beauty point next to this. You walked by the new current S class. Yeah.

spk_0 To wind up here. I don't understand the thinking. Did anybody at BMW actually stand back when they

spk_0 created the mockup? I think, you know, it's ugly. We should stop and redo things. It's not too

spk_0 late, but now that it's in the sheet metal, it's too late. Okay, gosh, that's so wow. All right,

spk_0 it's so fun. You and I actually overlap because again, we never talk about these lists prior. We

spk_0 just dive in. It's very fun. Oh, you went further. Okay. I had a sixth equal opportunity. Ugly. It

spk_0 doesn't matter. That's EV or not. I think this is controversial for you to bring up the ID bus.

spk_0 Don't think this will be a winner. I don't think it brings back everybody. Oh, I love the Volkswagen

spk_0 bus. The bus is so cool. The old bus. And it remains cool. This one, I'm trying to imagine this with

spk_0 a gas engine too. Let's take EV aside. Which is how it started, by the way. Yes. Like 10 years ago,

spk_0 you and I were on a shoot and six of these drove by on a on a back road in California. They were

spk_0 being tested for California at the time. And if I remember correctly, they were called the California

spk_0 California. Correct. And they had a gas engine in the back and it eventually became the ID bus.

spk_0 Let's imagine it's got a gas engine, maybe even a flat six in the back or something.

spk_0 It's just a mini van. It doesn't look really compelling and it doesn't necessarily do anything

spk_0 that other mini vans on the market. It didn't really set itself aside. They just abandoned that

spk_0 for the typical platform, the EV platform. I don't think anything about this is cool or has the

spk_0 cool factor or the get away from it all or change your lifestyle. It's just another people holler.

spk_0 So what about it should folks like to do to bring the dollars out of their customers wants? What

spk_0 what can they do to extract the dollars? You got choice when you're shopping in this market and

spk_0 you know what? At this level, there's a lot of other SUVs that are better looking and drive better

spk_0 and will be better than this thing. I think this is a disaster. There was such hope. There was such

spk_0 opportunity. 10, 20 years now. I think it'll be interesting to see what people think of these.

spk_0 I don't think it'll matter. I was I was fascinated by the fact that we did see the gas version

spk_0 called the California a decade plus ago when we were on a shoot. It was the memory serves. It was

spk_0 the focus RS and civic type R prior civic cars. There were like three of them at least three of them

spk_0 came up that road. That was Ohio Highway 33 came up there and we were like there they are moving.

spk_0 And we thought at the time if they're testing them at that level, they got to be close to coming out

spk_0 and then they went radio silent for a while and it popped back up as the I.D. bus. I

spk_0 you're going to get more letters there but I think it's I think you're probably right. It's

spk_0 currently not a sale success. True, true, true. Yeah. I mean, and that's brand new. That's shiny new

spk_0 thing. If you've got a list, an idea like any of these that we've done in the past because right

spk_0 to us every day driver TV at gmail.com we'd love to hear from you and many of you have been like

spk_0 I said, writing your lists and we're combining things to really make it hopefully succinct and

spk_0 please agree. Please disagree. I want to hear from you either way. We're adding FCP Euro as our

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spk_0 I don't know that we do succinct on our topic Tuesdays but we like the the discussion of all of

spk_0 them and that's one of the fun things. Thank you guys as Paul said for sending all of them in.

spk_0 We're going to do some quick updates from hook-down driving. There are some really cool track days

spk_0 coming up and then we got two car debates, we've got car conclusions, questions lots more coming

spk_0 up. So we're going to go quick. Pit race if you haven't heard is closing. That's in Pennsylvania and

spk_0 it's really too bad that it's closing. It's becoming a data center. That's not a joke. That's a reality.

spk_0 It's actually becoming a data center. But you know, you have race, here's I hate to say it, but

spk_0 race tracks are hard to keep open. Once that land becomes really valuable, it's hard to keep a

spk_0 race track open. The margins are thin. Developers just think data center.

spk_0 Seriously. So data center. We're going to do anything. So that's happening. So that's closing.

spk_0 But hook-down driving has the last ever HPDE at Pit race. November 8th and 9th are Northeastern

spk_0 region. Cody and Saundere killing it up there and they're doing the last ever Pit race HPDE

spk_0 through hook-down driving. You can sign up right now. We have Thunder Hill Raceway coming. The

spk_0 three mile setup of that track is coming to NorCal set Saturday, September 15th and Sunday to 16th

spk_0 and VIR. That is right. Virginia International Raceway with our mid-Atlantic region is happening. If

spk_0 you, okay, you've had Thanksgiving. You've done all of the eating. You've done too much eating. Yes.

spk_0 You've seen too much family. You'd really like to just go for a drive and clear your head. VIR,

spk_0 the weekend after Thanksgiving, the Saturday and Sunday after Thanksgiving, the 29th and 30th,

spk_0 that is happening. Registration is open now. Those are all on their way. So we'd love for you

spk_0 to come to those. There's more events happening and a couple of Paul and I are going to later in the

spk_0 year, which is really cool. Also, we're letting you know again, you've ever wanted to take your spouse

spk_0 to Europe, maybe Spain and Portugal. You should do that with hook-down driving and you can actually

spk_0 get on a couple of race tracks and then build a larger trip out of it. It's really cool. This is

spk_0 actually a very spouse-friendly trip. It's happening April 24th through 29th, 2026, Circuit Day

spk_0 Savilla right outside Saville and Porta Mau in Portugal. That's going to be amazing hotels. There's

spk_0 the Porta Mau hotel is on the beach. Yeah, it's right on the beach. It's very cool. This is a very

spk_0 spouse-friendly trip. Prozene, really. Driving, great scenery. Yeah, it's all good. You got to come.

spk_0 So hookdowndriving.com for all of these dates. Our first car debate comes to us from Jose. He writes to

spk_0 us as a short attention span man. He discovered us just a couple months ago, but he's going back and

spk_0 listening to old episodes. So thank you for being with us. He feels like every time that he buys a car,

spk_0 he feels like this is the one. He's going to keep it. This is it. We're done. He's the only one

spk_0 that's ever had that thought. It's just you, Jose. Yeah. Seems like his MO is to buy a car, enjoy the

spk_0 novelty while he makes it cosmetically fresh. He gets bored by it as soon as he's done with that and

spk_0 then he sells it. He is not proud of this behavior. He wants to change. He doesn't need to buy a

spk_0 forever car, but it would be delightful to be able to enjoy a car for at least three years or

spk_0 slightly longer before he gets bored. The previous fun cars. He's listed below a ton of them

spk_0 with no overlap. And he says these are fun cars that he bought thinking of fun and fun styling

spk_0 and how they make him feel, not utility, include an 05 Mini Cooper S automatic like it. 2020

spk_0 Mini Cooper S automatic. Okay. Also lots of fun. Felt was nimble glued to the road fast enough,

spk_0 got bored, sold it. Got as E3M Roadster the S52. That's great. Really cool. Yeah. That car

spk_0 introduced him to Rewildrive fun. He loved how tail happy it is, but he moved on it on from it

spk_0 quickly because he could make money and he didn't love the color. The first Porsche Boxster S.

spk_0 He bought it thinking it was an upgrade to the Z3M. He still believes it is. Then he went to a

spk_0 Porsche 911 997 generation. He had wanted one for a long time and when he finally owned one,

spk_0 he found it to be too fast and too good. So it was so good it was boring. It was more car

spk_0 than he needed. It was boring in his normal driving. I see it. Okay. BMW 330Z HP automatic,

spk_0 which normally right there, it's like, and I found the car too good to be that interesting. He

spk_0 was like, bought it, had it for a while, sold it again. And guess what? Then another Boxster,

spk_0 on another 986 back to what he called his happy car. It was great last of the year before

spk_0 boredom hit. Good as it was. He's had two already. He feels like he's done with it. Now, Jose,

spk_0 I want to stop here real quick. We've got some family cars. Mother should have talked about. You are

spk_0 in with friends here, my friend. We are all friends here. We all have the same thing. We call

spk_0 it the car disease. There is no known cure. Yes. And it's okay. And some of us have had 10 cars in

spk_0 our lives. Some of us had, I'm thinking of Karim writes in true. He's all, are you at 80 yet Karim?

spk_0 Yeah, true. I think so. I think he's he's close to 80. Did the Cadillac go away? I think it did.

spk_0 Oh man. Anyway, he just keeps selling cars and buying cars and his choice is excellent. It's just,

spk_0 you know, it's anyway, so it doesn't matter that I, I, here's the thing. I don't want to give you

spk_0 stress thinking you have to solve this problem in you. We say it before. Don't change spouses,

spk_0 change cars. Okay. It's just it's a lot less than that. It's fine. It's all good. So, so, Jose,

spk_0 I want to encourage you there. But you've, you've had all these cars. But then you also have other

spk_0 cars. You know, if you call these the house cars. I've never heard that term before. I love it.

spk_0 I know exactly what you mean. Would you say it? A Macon S and a Wrangler 4 by E. The Macon is kind

spk_0 of feels as easy to drive as a video game car. Interesting to have that description. The 4 by E is

spk_0 the one he drives when he takes his kids to school or activities. It sucks on the highway.

spk_0 Yep. But at least it has an open top and you can climb over fun stuff. So, he's hoping to replace

spk_0 the 4 by E with the Scout traveler. Okay. So the Scout, the Rivian,

spk_0 partnership with Volkswagen that makes us a Scout. It is cool looking. It just looks like a Rivian.

spk_0 So anyway, so that means we're just shopping for third car. You're normal. Your house cars.

spk_0 House cars are, I'm sorry, I'm using that term. House cars. Really like that. Our house cars are

spk_0 these. My fun cars are these. The house cars are those. House cars are solved. Fun car only.

spk_0 He thinks the sweet spot there it is for you, Paul Dingding, is something somewhat fast.

spk_0 Maybe an analog feel with some modern safety features. Now, I want all of you to lock in those

spk_0 features that he's just mentioned because then we get wild from here.

spk_0 So, somewhat fast, maybe analog with some modern safety features. Engagement is important.

spk_0 And then he lists the things he's already looking at. And we break many of those rules right away.

spk_0 Jose suggests a mid 80s. Alpha Romeo, GTV6. Plastic, cassettes, good old rattles. He's worried about

spk_0 reliability. Even on well maintained examples. But at the same time, isn't that part of the Italian

spk_0 car experience? Sure. We'll just say yes. Jose is good at cosmetic fixes, but he's not

spk_0 mechanically inclined. He also suggests a diesel Mercedes W123 wagon, the green over 10.

spk_0 Yes, just run to a wagon. Just diesel Mercedes wagon. All your problems will be solved. It'll be

spk_0 your forever car. Sure. I don't think that will last very long. How about another S-52 Z3M

spk_0 roadster? Well, you've had two boxers. Why not two Z3M? We haven't had two of these yet.

spk_0 Yeah. Okay. Another 2020-ish minicapress. Well, you've had two. How about a third?

spk_0 He lists a sob 900 SPG. The special performance group, sob 900. My brother in law, Daniel, is cheering

spk_0 you right now for the sob. He has, I think they've got five. I've kind of lost track. But a lot.

spk_0 Lots of sobs. Born from jets. I had to put up a sob SPG actual photo from the actual advertising.

spk_0 Here is the 900 SPG going down a road in an old ad. And the shadow behind it is of the sobjet.

spk_0 That's how born from jets they want you to believe this is. Just, they're just, it's just like a jet.

spk_0 Interlinked. It's just like a jet. Anyway, moving on. Daniel and I have actually been having

spk_0 discussions about how cops have reported when they go to accident scenes. The cars that are the

spk_0 sobs and people that they're in the sobs are far better protected because of the engineering.

spk_0 And yes, they did put a lot of engineering into it. But over time, manufacturers found better

spk_0 cheaper ways to build cars. I guess they weren't better necessarily, but certainly less expensive ways.

spk_0 And so quality has suffered. But those sob 900s, yeah, they are really cool. They're built well.

spk_0 And I've been fortunate to drive a few of Daniels out of his collection collection. So you can just go

spk_0 try it. And my sister now has a sob wagon. Of course. And of course she does.

spk_0 That turbo hose or it was actually the electronic actuator that actually made the turbo come into boost

spk_0 and get actually. Apparently that was off. And she was wondering why is my car a dog and why is

spk_0 this so slow? And they took it to the mechanic. He hooked it up and she's like, I love my sob. It's

spk_0 super fast. And he's getting daily triples. So there's good news there. Everyone first anyway.

spk_0 First gen Audi TT is next on the list with that 3.2 VR6 engine. So Jose, I love a lot of your

spk_0 suggestions. Jose needs our help desperately. You need first permission to keep doing what you're

spk_0 doing. We are here to enable you, my friend. I suppose. Sure. Yes. Because I love that you're

spk_0 getting all these experiences. And at first Jose, I thought is a more expensive car the answer.

spk_0 Because it's easy to rock it through a lot of inexpensive cars and just do the flip. And you have

spk_0 it for a year. You got it for two years and then board them hits. Like you said. And you can just

spk_0 choose a lot of inexpensive cars and well, I haven't tried that. And you know, Fiest STs and just

spk_0 rock it through stuff. But then where does it end or does it ever end or does it need to end?

spk_0 Or does it need to end? So you've got permission to continue on and there's so many cars that you

spk_0 have an experience yet. True. Yes. Fiest ST. Go get yourself a $9,000 Fiest ST and you'll

spk_0 cackle for, well, until board them hits. Well, until, yeah, until it's dirty apparently. Because I

spk_0 feel like these have to look nice and then he's not done like it anymore. But okay. But then I

spk_0 thought people at the high end wealthy individuals do the same thing with expensive luxury cars.

spk_0 True. They just lease them. They've got them for nine months and they get bored and the next

spk_0 Bentley comes out. Maybe that's who's buying the BMW 7. Just I'll have that for six months.

spk_0 Anyway, did you buy it in the dark or you blindfolded? What happened? What happened? Not here the

spk_0 thing. So I thought maybe not because expensive car, well, then you're just having it longer because

spk_0 it's so expensive and then you're you're spending more and it would prevent you from driving it because

spk_0 wow, it's too expensive and the value is going to go down or am I going to go over my all of my

spk_0 lease and so that's not the answer. I thought about something slower to try to extract more out of

spk_0 the I've got to learn to really carry my momentum. I mean, maybe that's the answer, but you've had

spk_0 some good cars and they're decently quick and fun to drive. So maybe that's not the answer.

spk_0 And then I thought about what about a project car? If you put all the blood, sweat, and tears into

spk_0 a project car and you make it yours like that old alpha and you find cassettes and like wow,

spk_0 Abba from the 80s. Let's see what that sounds like. Car's greatest hit always works. There you go.

spk_0 Yeah, I thought about a project car, but you said you're cosmetically inclined, not mechanically,

spk_0 but what if you learned to rebuild something major? Pick a major thing about the car.

spk_0 You built it and you became one and all your money went into it and it was yours and

spk_0 because I built that or I don't know that that would hang on any better, but it's a good idea.

spk_0 I don't think so. So I have decided you need a cul-de-sac car. It's the RF again. It comes back around

spk_0 all right, because long term that's going to be a gorgeous car fun to drive. The ND3, you're

spk_0 going to go get yourself a brand new one. You're going to love it. You're going to drive it and

spk_0 then you're going to realize there really isn't another car like this on the market that drives so

spk_0 well and it's fun as it is. It looks so great, but there might be. Oh, okay. But you yourself have

spk_0 another one. What is the original cul-de-sac car that Todd coined? You're joined. Okay. Years ago and

spk_0 said it's a cul-de-sac car. I can't go anywhere else because nothing else is like it. A lotus,

spk_0 elise, and that's it. Okay. Maybe it stops there and you keep the lotus forever because

spk_0 nothing else drives like it. Yeah. And any future sports car is a fourth. Wow. And I add and

spk_0 look at you. Well, we were all tried to get all of the cul-de-sac car. That's that's really where

spk_0 we're headed. The original cul-de-sac car. Hey, I would like all of you to note and I would like

spk_0 all of you to remember that we have had an entire podcast and it's going to continue because I feel

spk_0 confident it's going to continue after this. We've had an entire podcast episode where I didn't bring

spk_0 up lotus and Paul did. So I've just, you know, it's not always me. That's all I'm saying. It's

spk_0 not just me. It is not crazy. Yeah. Anyway, that's excellent. I'm always happy to see it. And

spk_0 Lees mentioned Jose, I want to run through your list real quick and just kind of poke holes in it

spk_0 a bit because I want you to ponder what you've sent us versus the list you sent us.

spk_0 You get bored quick when things aren't perfect. And then you've said maybe an 80s alpha.

spk_0 No. Not going to even, I mean, looks really cool.

spk_0 I tell you it gets dirty and nothing. I mean, I like them. I like them. Yeah.

spk_0 But I just, if you get bored quick when things get perfect and aren't perfect and then you're

spk_0 thinking about a red mid 80s alpha, I just think there's a collision coming, man. A Mercedes wagon.

spk_0 You thought that the CHP BMW was boring. A diesel Mercedes wagon.

spk_0 Jose, genuinely, I'm wondering here if you are one of those really gifted people in detailing.

spk_0 Because I'm thinking that this list, especially that alpha and this Mercedes, the the

spk_0 Sob 900, the first gen Audi TT, what I'm seeing is a commonality of all of those is I think you

spk_0 want to be close to them and work on them and make them look perfect. Like you, and I almost feel like

spk_0 if you don't have a detailed business, seek out owners with those cars and just detail those cars

spk_0 for them. Have the experience of being close to one of those cars and making it look amazing,

spk_0 but not have to own it. The you already owned a ZZ3M. I don't think you need to own another one.

spk_0 You've owned many Cooper twice. I don't think you need to own another one. The Sob 900, I don't

spk_0 scoping for what the next one is. Will it run well enough to keep you interested? I think that's a

spk_0 car that you're fascinated by how it looks and you want to be close to it, but I don't know you want

spk_0 to own it. The first gen Audi TT, I have heard so few things about the merging of the actually running

spk_0 and then looking cool. Looking cool, yes, running not so much. That's all I've ever heard about those

spk_0 even though they are cool. So I'm going to run into a couple others because I'm trying to find you

spk_0 something that is a unique driving experience that also when I'm looking at your list here,

spk_0 I don't see 60, 70 grand available. I see 20, 30 grand available is what I'm guessing. I'm just

spk_0 guessing based on what you've sent us. So I'm trying to think of something that you can get a

spk_0 unique driving experience out of it. I didn't say Lotus at least by the way, but I did have four that

spk_0 I think are very interesting that you should seriously consider. We're going to start right here

spk_0 with a car that may never come again and that is the Honda S2000. Oh, that's really good.

spk_0 Get yourself a Honda S2000. You had a Z3, you've had a Boxster. This is a very different flavor

spk_0 in the same idea, but because these are our older cars, I'm showing a beautiful orange one right now,

spk_0 they had a fantastic blue, they had a good looking red. I feel like everyone I see now is silver

spk_0 or that kind of silvery blue, but these are spectacular cars. You can find one in that color. Yes.

spk_0 Gorgeous. Get yourself a Honda S2000. It's just interesting. The technology that I had that was

spk_0 cutting edge at the time is still interesting now. The top works really well. They have that stereo

spk_0 that gets hidden. They have all the little controls right by the wheel, which I love. That's the 300ZX

spk_0 thing as well. It was one of the first cars we all got excited about a start button. Now it's like

spk_0 everything has a start button. It has a start button. Oh, cool. It's like an airplane. What is this?

spk_0 So Honda S2000 has got to be way up on the list. You were talking about things that are

spk_0 enjoyable to drive that you can really use all of. That was another thing that came out of your list

spk_0 and still kind of analog with modern safety features. I did Miata 2, but it did a NC, a third gen Miata.

spk_0 Ooh. These are out there. Those are the Dale. Whichever one you want. These are the cars that

spk_0 they're bigger. You could get a retractable hardtop if you want it. They actually have decent

spk_0 passenger space unlike the ND3 unfortunately. But these third gen Miatas are excellent. They're

spk_0 out there with whatever budget you have. You can do great things. There's also a lot of aftermarket

spk_0 support on these. These are on the rise in aftermarket support. These were the unloved Miata. In the

spk_0 last three or four years, the tide is turning. And there's stuff for these. So that's another one.

spk_0 Sure. And while I was at that generation of Mazda, I went, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You want

spk_0 something quirky? What about an RX 8? You want somewhere to put your money? Well, but Jose,

spk_0 here's what I'm going to say to you about an RX 8. You are a guy that goes through cars quickly.

spk_0 This one can go through engines quickly. It can. But the point I'm making here is none of these

spk_0 are expensive. That's true. And I'm overstating. I know. But this is almost a disposable car.

spk_0 It's almost by it when the engine blows up. You go, eh, I mean, not quite. I know money's a real

spk_0 thing. I'm aware of cars. Well, this one used it the next one. I just, but that's kind of how

spk_0 you've used cars. And I think this is a very unique experience to drive. Yeah, it is. Find yourself

spk_0 in RX 8. Not the nicest one ever. Find yourself a mid grade RX 8. Make it look beautiful.

spk_0 Drive it sometimes. And it's a drive sometimes car anyway. Sure. This car is at its worst for

spk_0 reliability when you use it to run errands. This is the car you want to have as a third car because

spk_0 you intended to go drive it. You're going to warm up the engine. You're going to wind it out. And

spk_0 you're going to bring it home properly. Good. An RX 7. FDR 7 fit here too. Because I like those

spk_0 RX 7. It could. But I think he's looking for modern enough. And the problem with the RX 7 is,

spk_0 I think they're above his budget because the good ones are all really expensive. These RX 8s are

spk_0 just out there for nothing. Yeah, true. So I think it's modern enough. It's the same generation as

spk_0 that third gen Miata. I think you could have a really incredible time in one of these. So that's

spk_0 one of my ideas. And my last idea for you because it's unlike anything you've had. And I want to get

spk_0 you fun to drive rear wheel drive. But into something you haven't had. And that is the C6

spk_0 Z06 Corvette. You talked about plastic. He's interesting. In the alpha. This has got plastic

spk_0 he mutton for you. Boy, do we have a solution? But it's a modern car. It's a genuinely modern car.

spk_0 And that big old engine up there is fantastic. Now I do admit this is a wild car because you sold

spk_0 your 911 for being too much car. This may be as well. But it's totally different than anything you've had.

spk_0 Big front engine muscle car feel rear wheel drive. Very capable. C606 is on a wild card for me

spk_0 for you Jose. But I think that's a worthwhile one on the list as well. That's good. I like your

spk_0 choices. Do you have the urge to do burnouts? Yes. You feel the urge to rock it through rear tires.

spk_0 I mean, that's he has all the plastic of the of the alpha. But it also is going to be a lot more

spk_0 reliable than the alpha. I mean, let's be honest. Are those selling points? Second ones. I think

spk_0 all things considered more plastic than alpha's. That's you sold me as plastic as plastic. He wants

spk_0 plastic. He buttons C6 Corvette. It's got plastic. But we actually solved problems are solved.

spk_0 Everyday driver TV at gmail.com topic Tuesday's car conclusions and car debates.

spk_0 Moving on to Mark and Marianne are in Pittsburgh have written to us about Mercedes Benz

spk_0 Sunsetting the app on their current car. Mark Marianne, thank you for writing to us. They're in

spk_0 their early 70s. But are immature enough to have hope there's positive outcome to this issue.

spk_0 Their previous cars include 60s of all those 70s Mustang 2 Cobra. You had one of those?

spk_0 80s Honda's Mazda's and Suzuki's 2000s Miatta or Mazda's. He's not sure if this is a debate

spk_0 or a topic Tuesday. But just before COVID made prices crazy, they bought a used Mercedes Benz 2018

spk_0 GLA 250 formatic with 17,000 miles. Jupiter Red, tan interior. They traded in their 2012

spk_0 Subaru Impresa with 100,000 miles that required a quarter of oil every 600 miles.

spk_0 That was their first non-standard transmission car. They learned that CBT is short for crap.

spk_0 You're being kind. Yes, that is absolutely true. Yes. The small GLA is much better built in

spk_0 Impresa. He says, washing the GLA for the first time, they were amazed. Oh, with Grills Garage

spk_0 car care. Very cool, glad. Their amazed the hood didn't flex like the Impresa.

spk_0 I love it. He says they like the handling, the power, the amenities. No, it's not the AMG.

spk_0 But from where they came from, it's an improvement. I totally get that. I mean, they're cool

spk_0 little cars. They are for sure. Yeah. They just got notice on their embrace app stating that Mercedes

spk_0 is sun setting the app. This means no remote start, no remote lock and unlock. Crash reporting will

spk_0 go away. And he's included the official link to us. So that's being put out. And I looked on various

spk_0 forums, Mark, and the word is out. Yeah, they're definitely sun setting this app. But Mark is asking,

spk_0 how does one protect oneself from having features snatched away? Verizon supplied bandwidth,

spk_0 but it would be professional of Mercedes to an offer and alternative. So how does somebody,

spk_0 an owner replace those specific features at a reasonable price? You saw the price of 12 to $1,400

spk_0 for a third party install. They've got a hundred thousand miles on their GLA now. It's their only car

spk_0 and they plan on keeping it and buying a newer Mercedes Benz vehicle next year. They love the new

spk_0 Mercedes interiors and features. They're used to the controls. They're in the Mercedes ecosystem.

spk_0 For sure. We've talked about it before. Yeah. But they're rethinking about buying another Mercedes

spk_0 if this is going to be the behavior they're exhibiting. They don't want to be rash. But

spk_0 how does any company think this behavior can possibly help future sales when trust has been broken?

spk_0 Mark, I really do appreciate your concern. I am sorry this is happening to you. So pulling up

spk_0 an image here of the embrace app. And this is what it was advertised to be. Yeah, all these

spk_0 different features. I think we've gone through and are continuing to go through a little bit of a

spk_0 a period where car companies race to create their own interfaces. And your car is right in the sweet

spk_0 spot of that. And it's I guess it's not sweet. It's just the spot. Yeah. When every car company was

spk_0 trying to figure out, all right, are we doing our own thing? They're diving into coding and screens

spk_0 and offering features because you know, this was a selling point. This was a selling feature.

spk_0 Another app on your phone in 2018, we all wanted to add apps to our phone. It was the thing.

spk_0 There's an app for that. Yes, let's go ahead and add another app. Uh-huh. And then we all started

spk_0 to realize that is not the answer. And then car companies realized this is not the answer. Because

spk_0 Android Auto Apple CarPlay came along and just destroyed everything. And smart car

spk_0 manufacturers are realizing, I mean, GM's not quite there yet, but other software companies are

spk_0 doing it better. Let's just embrace that and focus on the goodness of building cars and what they

spk_0 know cars. And their past history, let's we can build good cars. Let's do that. So where you're at,

spk_0 you've got a hundred thousand miles on it. And where you're at now is you're waiting a year, but

spk_0 I think now's the time. Because we also don't know what the architecture that this particular platform

spk_0 was built on. And it might not be Mercedes. I want you to just detach yourself from a moment and

spk_0 give you permission to go buy another Mercedes. If you like it, because it could be behind the scenes,

spk_0 it could be Verizon carrying it could be built on third generation architecture or fourth. And

spk_0 those particular features are maybe forcing Mercedes to sunset the app. It might not even be them.

spk_0 It could be. It might be. Horizons making changes. There's tech behind the scenes. Certain

spk_0 bandwidth is going away. And they're forced to do that, even though maybe Mercedes wanted to

spk_0 keep doing this. And now they're forced to do that. So there's so many car companies. Well,

spk_0 practically everybody, they've embraced a technology. Your phone connects. You've pulled it up.

spk_0 And this is going to be whatever it is going forward. There is no guarantee that any car company

spk_0 won't keep doing this. But I feel like things have settled out since the late odds. Things are

spk_0 settled out with here's where things are going with the app. Maybe we don't need to add these,

spk_0 you know, offer these kinds of functions. But again, it could have been the business arrangement.

spk_0 It could be it could be legalese or a contractual arrangement that expired that forces this change.

spk_0 We don't know it. And you know, the technology is obviously still available or are I mean possible.

spk_0 But the contracts could have run out. Something business wise could have been changed that force

spk_0 this. And so I think maybe it's a good thing for you to be open-minded to go look at, you know,

spk_0 go source a new Mercedes, go look at what that is. Where we're at now, you have less of a chance,

spk_0 prediction on my part, have less of a chance to run into this sort of problem because

spk_0 things have kind of settled through the industry. Ish, kind of. I've sneaked a joke photo onto

spk_0 the screen here of a Mercedes Benz with a CD changer being displayed prominently. Yeah.

spk_0 Guys, I'm sorry to tell you, but this never stops. It's only getting worse. The problem you've

spk_0 encountered is the setting of the app is only going to accelerate. I actually went looking for a

spk_0 CD changer photo to bring up this point and just happened upon a Mercedes one. I wasn't even

spk_0 looking for Mercedes one. It just happens to be a Mercedes one showing the glove box with the

spk_0 six CD changer. We all remember these. They're not that long ago. Yeah. And now if you see a CD

spk_0 changer, you go, oh my gosh, it's got a CD changer in it. And the next thing you do, we all do it.

spk_0 You go, is there anything at it? Because you want to see what was this person's musical taste?

spk_0 Exactly. I didn't. We've literally known people who have bought a car found a CD changer

spk_0 after they bought it. Didn't even know when they bought it. And like, look what I found.

spk_0 That they're pulling CDs. I don't like it. This is my weird mix. Well, whatever it is. So

spk_0 exactly. The point I'm making here is car makers try to jump on to latest technology to differentiate

spk_0 themselves and then the technology moves on. And as cars are becoming more and more connected

spk_0 to the internet so they can track you and give you quote unquote features, this is only going to

spk_0 continue. And so my point I'm making that is a lines of what Paul saying here is, if you would

spk_0 like to get another Mercedes product, get another Mercedes product. Yeah. Because what I think is

spk_0 likely is you're going to buy someone else's car and find that they did it in their own little way.

spk_0 Unfortunately, it's all moving so quickly and everything's getting attached to an app or a whatever.

spk_0 And then the other thing about it is like, there's the companies that are giving you an app and

spk_0 only works for a year. And now you have to pay for it. There's that. And you know, BMW got flamed for

spk_0 we're going to offer heated seats on a subscription. This is not going away. I hate that it's not

spk_0 going away, but this is not going away. And I want to challenge you on one other thing, guys. And

spk_0 I know I'm challenging when I say this, but you've listed the things you're frustrated about losing

spk_0 remote start and remote lock and unlock the doors. Okay. If you like the car, if you plan to keep it

spk_0 another year, how often do you remote start it? Maybe it's always how often do you remote lock and

spk_0 unlock the doors? Doesn't it have a key fob? Yeah. And some of those features are already, you know,

spk_0 like remote start can be just on the phone itself. It depends on the car. So I don't feel like

spk_0 you have to have an app to get these features or I don't feel like the features you're bringing up

spk_0 are so paramount to ownership. Maybe I'm not understanding your usage that you have to have them

spk_0 through this app. There's a whack-a-mole game going on here. It sounds crazy where if you're trying

spk_0 to buy a car where the technology is not going to become obsolete, you're going to need to buy a car

spk_0 from the 80s or 90s. And Alpha GT V6. Maybe. Maybe there you go. They go back to the cars you have in the 80s.

spk_0 Because that that tech is just it's analog. There's not tech connected to it and it's just fine.

spk_0 Even a early 2000s BMW and all the pixelated screens are going bad, right? Yeah. So

spk_0 unfortunately we're here and we're getting more and more to replace where I can't believe it,

spk_0 that I can even say this, where cars are becoming a disposable item like phones and other technology

spk_0 that are becoming much more disposable. I will never forget this. My in-laws up until a few years ago

spk_0 had a refrigerator that my mother-in-law got from her mom and they kept it in the corner of

spk_0 their house and it was just a drinks fridge because that stuff was built because you were

spk_0 the thinking of the time was seriously. The thinking at the time was you and your family bought

spk_0 your refrigerator. There was no thinking about well in five years it's going to burn out or we'll put

spk_0 why would there be more tech? It's just a fridge. It keeps drinking cold. We're done. This was

spk_0 the family refrigerator. Yes. And they had it until people died off. Oh my gosh. And literally we

spk_0 had a conversation with my mother-in-law about how it's cool. It's nice that it runs. It's an

spk_0 interesting piece of and but you're moving you're downsizing. The fridge has got to go

spk_0 because you have this whole other fridge here that's like modern and does stuff and

spk_0 but it refused to die. It was the drink fridge forever. So this is not happening with cars at all.

spk_0 Cars are designed to become obsolete at some level. And I'll even say this. It's not even

spk_0 as much as I do believe in design obsolescence. As much as I do believe that happens with all the

spk_0 stuff we have in our life, the other thing about it with cars is as we've tied them to latest tech,

spk_0 the tech's moving so quick, the car becomes obsolete without even trying. I was going to say I

spk_0 feel like that analogy is great for cars because 70s, 60s, 70s, 80s cars. Those will always be

spk_0 beloved and auctioned and driven. They're just frozen in time. And then as tech has worked its way

spk_0 into cars, which is why I feel like modern EVs are so disposable. Even though they're cool,

spk_0 I just I don't feel like it's a long lasting with longevity in mind like this is it. And that's

spk_0 tech. Yeah. Not the car manufacturer. We've talked about this before. If you take a 90s car,

spk_0 and an early 2000s car, 90s car, no nav screen, no digital, anything, 90s car, 300s, the extra

spk_0 from Nissan, early 2000s BMW with nav hop in both of those. And tell me, even if you know, tell me

spk_0 which one feels older. Interesting. The BMW 10 years newer will probably feel older because you're

spk_0 seeing all this display of, oh gosh, we've moved on from that. But the Nissan in the 90s, and I'm

spk_0 not saying Nissan's on the other side, but Nissan had to pick your brand, just analog gauges and the

spk_0 transmission is just a lever. And okay, okay, that doesn't feel nearly as old as an early 2000s car

spk_0 with nav. That's like yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Mark Marianne, the answer is to go by an old suburban from

spk_0 19s. Just kidding. Blazers for everyone. K series Blazers for everyone. It's a great idea. Yeah,

spk_0 exactly. No, you definitely have our permission to go to get another Mercedes Benz and investigate

spk_0 something. But I feel like we're past a time period. We're still in it, but we're towards the tail

spk_0 end where things are settling a bit. And you've got the freedom to just to choose. I think Mercedes,

spk_0 it's tough. It's not here. The key thing is it's everybody. It's not just Mercedes. Yeah, it's

spk_0 not just Mercedes. And so don't have a bad opinion of Mercedes. Just because of that. But get

spk_0 something newer. I would say get something newer that you still like. Maybe it's another GLA

spk_0 that is even newer. Maybe it's that possibly because you're not done with it yet.

spk_0 We're going to not do car conclusions again, which is a little bit too bad, but we're just we're

spk_0 running and gunning. We're going to do a little bit more on another podcast, but we're going to move

spk_0 on to I have to do it. Did you see this? We're going to not do car conclusions because I have to do

spk_0 it. Did you see this? Okay, good. Good. This past week, you're watching this on a Tuesday. You've

spk_0 probably seen the reveal of this, but in the past week right before Halloween, everything I'm aware of

spk_0 that I want to talk to you is not a joke. It's a real thing. It exists. You can get it right now.

spk_0 Did you see my friend Paul and all of you watching and listening, the Neo home robot?

spk_0 This is legitimately being sold right now. It is a five foot six 66 pound humanoid looking robot.

spk_0 It works for roughly four hours and then you plug it in. It has essentially a soft shell clothing.

spk_0 It's got a clothing on it that makes it look less like the mechanics underneath.

spk_0 It has a bunch of programming and it is designed. It has little eyes for cameras. Okay, this is not a

spk_0 joke. I'm actually legitimately not making a joke. This is for sale right now. It can lift

spk_0 theoretically about a hundred pound, 150 pounds and carry about 55 pounds. It's got mics to hear you.

spk_0 It's got speakers to talk to you. On one level, this is what we're all talking about. This is what we

spk_0 all imagine the world's going to work toward. We're all going to have a robot assistant in our home.

spk_0 Okay, that's been dreamed about since the Jetsons. Okay, this is good. We robot assistant in our home.

spk_0 It's been around forever. You can buy this right now. $20,000 to buy one or five grand. That's it.

spk_0 Or $500 a month to essentially try it out. But there's been a lot of flashy articles about this.

spk_0 It was just released in the past week. A lot of newspapers have reported it. There's been lots of

spk_0 videos. I watched the launch video. That's where the did you see this comes in. I watched the

spk_0 launch video on YouTube for this neo robot in E O home robot. Here's where it gets weird.

spk_0 Okay, you would think what they've launched is an autonomous home robot. But if you watch the video,

spk_0 there are a few things and it literally comes. I mean, like the movie AI artificial intelligence

spk_0 used to be a Bergmaid where they rolled the box into the house and unboxed the kid. It comes in

spk_0 a box like that. It's like that probably how it's delivered like that. Oh my god. You can get it in

spk_0 various shades of flesh. It comes in a flesh color, a gray color, and a black color. Okay. You get to

spk_0 pick its shoes apparently. You can customize its shoes. But it comes out of the box. I'm literally

spk_0 saying that legitimately comes out of the box able to like answer your door and put something

spk_0 away if you tell it where to put it away. That kind of some very basic stuff. You watch it move in

spk_0 the video. It moves. Okay, it moves. Okay. But as soon as you get past the very limited fully

spk_0 autonomous features, what's actually happening is you are through companion mode or expert mode,

spk_0 depending on what you were talking about, you are essentially having the robot dial into the company.

spk_0 And there is now a person at the company wearing VR headsets with the little hand toggles that is

spk_0 looking through the eyes of the robot. Oh geez. And you teach the robot. In other words, you're teaching

spk_0 or you're showing the person who's driving the robot. How to do your specific laundry,

spk_0 load your specific shelves, water your plants, inside your house. Yes. You are having to let a third

spk_0 party person in your house to walk around in the robot to do the things. So now imagine a world where

spk_0 you want this thing to water all your plants all over your property. And you've got like plants all

spk_0 over the place. You've left for work. Now you have a robot in your home that a person in a company

spk_0 is looking through their eyes and walking around your property with your permission with none of your

spk_0 supervision. Now you can look on the app to see what NEO is looking at at any time. This is such

spk_0 extreme beta testing. I can't even stand it because this is think about it. This is the way

spk_0 cars, Tesla Mercedes, whoever, have been trained to be better autonomous drivers because they've

spk_0 done thousands and thousands of hours of observing proper driving. This is how Tesla's code stack is

spk_0 so good. It started off marginal, but because of all the people were driving the car and the car

spk_0 was learning. Eventually, now you get into a Tesla product and you put it on autopilot and you're like,

spk_0 this is pretty great. It drives like a human. We've watched thousands of hours of humans doing

spk_0 stuff. If this gets embraced 10 years from now, these things will be able to do a lot.

spk_0 This company has legitimately said, at the end of their video, for those of you that want to go

spk_0 on this journey with us, what's between the lines here is. It's a journey. Yes. You are paying them

spk_0 money to beta test and create a code stack for their product. If this company even survives,

spk_0 if this concept even survives, in 10, 20 years, you can buy a robot, pull out of the box and say,

spk_0 how's this driven by people and they understand how to navigate a new house because there's a huge

spk_0 code stack like a Tesla product. Yeah. Exactly. This is day one. They are launching this. It is

spk_0 actually for sale to walk around your house with permission. If it doesn't know how to do a task,

spk_0 to phone home, essentially, to have a person in glasses walk through the process.

spk_0 That's why I'm doing it because I cannot believe it exists. I hope all of you seeing it and I am

spk_0 fascinated and horrified that this exists. Three things. Just three. Okay. Good. Short list.

spk_0 Only three. Excellent. Can it ride with me in the carpool lane?

spk_0 That is coming. Yes. And if it doesn't, can it drive me? And I'm riding shotgun in the carpool lane.

spk_0 You want a lot of pilot? You bought a deal. That's very funny. That's very fun.

spk_0 But if it's driving, no car company ever needs to investigate and develop any autonomous system ever.

spk_0 You can just build a normal car and hire one of these and buy one of these to plop into the driver's seat.

spk_0 And it's actually another person on the other side of a planet driving around the city.

spk_0 And it's autonomous. That's really funny. And you're training them. You could theoretically.

spk_0 What's a ton of me limit? Limit there because you're right. But theoretically. My list is grown.

spk_0 Theoretically, you're right. You could put that robot. It's five foot six. You could put it in a car.

spk_0 And the person could remotely drive your car using your robot. Somebody else is driving you around

spk_0 from the other side of the planet. It's like military drones. Terrifying. You're driving a drone

spk_0 on the other side of the planet. That is terrifying. If you watch this thing, by the way, I'm terrified

spk_0 because if you watch this thing move on the video, you don't want something with that reaction time

spk_0 driving a car. But you're right. You could Google better buy this company fast because this is going

spk_0 to put Waymo out of business and Uber and Lyft unless they buy a bunch of these and just build

spk_0 normal cars that don't have built in electronic automotive autonomous systems. It's just.

spk_0 It comes my Neo driver. One of these that drives your car. It's like TURROL plus Uber.

spk_0 All combined. They're driving your car to go pick somebody else up. You're getting the money.

spk_0 Is that called? There tuber? What is it? What do we do it? Okay. I just wanted you to see it

spk_0 because I cannot believe it's there. We are the beta tester tester for this.

spk_0 Think about the stuff you're going to have to sign. You probably haven't read. That is essentially

spk_0 you are allowing a person in goggles to walk around your house and for you to tell them stuff.

spk_0 And it's going to be person in goggles on the other side of the planet for a few years. Yes,

spk_0 exactly true. And it's recording everything. Yep. Oh, that's where you keep your valuable. The

spk_0 sentence was if you believe as deeply as we do, join us. You got to believe. You got to believe.

spk_0 All right. Moving on to audience questions. I'm telling you. There's a whole podcast on this.

spk_0 There really is. Yes. I love the irony of a bunch of these in a mechanic shop, rebuilding engines

spk_0 on gas powered cars. I like that. I love the irony there. Can we get an entire shop of Neo

spk_0 bots to rebuild a 60s Ferrari? Maybe one of these can run one website based on AI

spk_0 journalism. And it's just one of these running the whole thing. So it's a robot running an AI

spk_0 website. Hey, nobody's actually doing anything. Let's just close the loop. Let's just close the

spk_0 loop. Go to the beach. What's so funny about the video actually is all of the relaxing that the

spk_0 people of the video are doing. They're doing that kind of relaxing. We don't really do anymore.

spk_0 Like I'm going to sit here across my legs and read the paper. It's the kind of relaxing you do

spk_0 in a Tesla driving itself. I'm not relaxed. But here's the thing. A couple comes home from a date

spk_0 in the middle of the video. Of course, they're driving a portion of the night. They come home from a date

spk_0 in their perfect 9-11 to find that Neo has cleaned up the house. So this is a couple that's

spk_0 supposed to live together. Okay. This couple comes home. And he, I'm not I'm not overstating. He

spk_0 flops onto the couch. Doesn't sit. He like walks to the corner of this pristine living room.

spk_0 Because remember, Neo cleaned it and flops onto the couch. And his girlfriend walks over and she

spk_0 sits beautifully beside him and he puts his arm around her and he leans over and he kisses her

spk_0 on the forehead. I've been married a long time. Okay. I have a lot of friends who are married. People

spk_0 with long relationships. If you come home from a date to a pristine house and you have had the

spk_0 greatest date ever and everybody is super happy, that is still not the progress of what happened.

spk_0 I'm not walking into anywhere just flopping on the couch. My wife sits beside me and I kiss her

spk_0 on the head. Nope. There's still stuff to do. Or we want to be together. If you know what I mean,

spk_0 I mean, the reality is that is not the progression of things. Okay. I just was watching this going,

spk_0 this was done by an ad agency while the robots, yes, in the background. Neo robots. It's here,

spk_0 everybody. Please tell me that's what it sounds like. And it's like old analog gears and it does

spk_0 it sound like it's a decent job of actually making it kind of worse instead of chink. But it moves.

spk_0 Like you imagine and there's a whole other thing. I'm actually going to stop here, but there's

spk_0 a whole other thing that this brings up and that is do we need human-noid robots? Don't we just need

spk_0 robots to do specific things that could be whatever shape they need to be to optimize that like your

spk_0 dishwasher as a robot sits in the corner. It's a box and it cleans dishes. It doesn't walk around

spk_0 because it doesn't need to. It's just it cleans dishes so much better than I ever could.

spk_0 Because all it does is clean dishes so you make it a box with a bunch of water jets done. Why do we

spk_0 places an army of these? Of course it does. Can valet park? I'm just going to keep driving.

spk_0 Walk up into the army of those like I'm going to keep going to get another restaurant. Old 60s

spk_0 Mustangs are autonomous cars now because it just has one of these driving around. It's actually a

spk_0 person with goggles driving around every car can be autonomous. It's terrifying and amazing

spk_0 in equal parts. Shall we do some questions? Let's do some questions quickly quickly.

spk_0 Secret quad for, for, for, for, for, ask what are ways you've dealt with sitting shot gun when

spk_0 the person driving is distracted but won't admit it? Honesty. Driver, you're making me uncomfortable.

spk_0 Just on a serious note, you're making me uncomfortable. Could you please stop doing whatever it is?

spk_0 Just please could you just straight up? Because laughing and joking your way there, they're not

spk_0 really ever going to get it and they're making you uncomfortable and hey you know what? Just

spk_0 on a just being serious real quick. Can you change whatever you're doing because you're making

spk_0 me uncomfortable? Could you please do that for me? That's the best way I know how to do it. There

spk_0 is no good way. I think Paul's laying that on the best possible way I do agree with that.

spk_0 Flurmit says with car makers, EV futures collapsing in the development cycle for a car being

spk_0 about five years. What cars do we think manufacturers are scrambling to make now that we're released

spk_0 in the coming years. Flurmit, you can actually see it already and that is what's happening

spk_0 is that all of these manufacturers that have got cars in development are figuring out how to put

spk_0 gasoline motors in them as well. The car, the cars, the cars on the move, it's headed toward

spk_0 development. You're going to be built. So now it's just can we change the power plant?

spk_0 I like the ID buzz. Taking a saw is all. Cut the back end out. Stuff of Porsche.

spk_0 Who the turbo S engine back there? Can we put in the flat toaster too just for fun?

spk_0 Oh, it ejects toast.

spk_0 Oh, the side pipes. Anyway, I mean too bad paper delivery is not a thing anymore because it could

spk_0 just be great. Well, we've got that Chinese company that's making the battery ejection system.

spk_0 There's your new paper boy that'll be a lot safer than ejecting the battery. I mean,

spk_0 the battery's on fire. I'll just eject it. Somebody else. I love the idea of across eight leads

spk_0 to traffic. Just let's make something else on fire. It's going to be great. That's a weapon.

spk_0 It's a fast and furious movie. Fast and furious 11 is like ejecting batteries on fire,

spk_0 batteries, we traffic. Anyway, sorry, back to your question. I drifted quickly.

spk_0 Battery wars. What I hope is going to happen legitimately is that automakers are going to make

spk_0 cars that come in different power plants. Yeah. And you can get the EV one, you can get the hybrid

spk_0 one, you can get the gasoline one. I think that is what they're all realizing. What happened is GM

spk_0 is the best example. They all just jumped in head first. Oh, the Hummer. Exactly. Yes.

spk_0 If that's the new regulation, we're coming right back around where we started. It's a stack of

spk_0 a bunch of batteries. It weighs 13,000 pounds. We don't care. But it's fine because it's electric.

spk_0 It'll go. It's lots of freedom, buddy. It's going to be great. But the point is we just we just

spk_0 we created a world where manufacturers felt like because of regulation and what the world was

spk_0 thinking, we're going to jump in head first and they realize the market isn't catching that. So

spk_0 now they're having to make a little bit of everything, which you and I have said from the beginning,

spk_0 let's just have options. I love that. Options are good. Ask question from me from Hassan 0M.

spk_0 Question related to design specifically wheel sizes. So the Lucid gravity has 23 inch wheels on the

spk_0 rear. For a luxury SUV, isn't comfort and ride top priority? Why would a company use such a big wheel?

spk_0 And what should be the maximum size in our opinion? Styling. It looked really great in the sketches

spk_0 and proportion of wheel to body side to car. That is what designers are going after. Of course,

spk_0 on those low rolling resistance, what's possible? We don't know what the tech is behind the wheel.

spk_0 If the motor's larger, whatever the assembly is that necessitates such a large wheel, but that

spk_0 proportion looks so good. I mean, 23 inch is too big. I mean, 20 inch are commonplace now.

spk_0 Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Those are plenty big and on a track car,

spk_0 you still want to back it off and go to 18s. That's the sweet spot for your track car.

spk_0 So I think 20, 22s on an EV. I mean, that's the special edition, but even 20s, I think are still

spk_0 plenty large. 18s on SUVs is still a big wheel because you got big notties or 30 times on there.

spk_0 18 with good tire meat on the side is the way to go on most big SUVs, but you're right. The ones

spk_0 that look cool are how big a wheel can I make in the design. Last one, I'm going to try to go through

spk_0 quick. Kyle Bliss says high mileage hero or zero challenge. Imagine each of the following vehicles

spk_0 with 150,000 miles on the clock. It's in perfect working condition, except for what he's about to

spk_0 list. We have to drive one of these five vehicles for a full track day. Which one dies first,

spk_0 and which one is the fastest around a track? A WRX STI with the original head gasket.

spk_0 A Mark 6 Golf R with the original timing chain tensioner. At E46 M3 with the original

spk_0 rod bearings. An R53 Mini without ever having the supercharger serviced. And last, the Focus Rx with

spk_0 the original wrong head gasket. Run away. A full track day. Which one dies first, and which one

spk_0 does the fastest lap? I think that the Focus RS has the potential to do the fastest lap.

spk_0 I also, it might be the first to die because it's got the wrong head gasket on it.

spk_0 The early ones had the full on wrong gasket. It'll be fastest in first to do

spk_0 possibly, possibly. I think that's a real possibility there. I think the Golf R will survive the day.

spk_0 I think the STI's got a session in it and it's done. I think the E46 is going to,

spk_0 all you to thinking it's going to survive in the last session. It's going to blow spectacularly,

spk_0 like pieces through the hood. It's going to be great up until then. And probably pretty close to

spk_0 fastest. The R53 Mini is a total dice roll. It's either going to go session one, or it's going to

spk_0 leave perfectly fine. It's one of the two. I don't know. It's going to be like, we blew it up

spk_0 on second lap, or I'm driving home in it. That's real. Anyway. Join us next time when there's a NEO

spk_0 robot sitting there and a robot sitting here. The last time you'll see us discussing. I don't know

spk_0 what we're going to sit somewhere else. We'll just have the robots go. It's going to be awesome.

spk_0 Actually speaking through the robots, and that's what everybody robots things from a remote location.

spk_0 I'm going to put a wig on mine. It's going to be great. It's going to be fantastic. Yeah. So,

spk_0 really appreciate all your questions. Yeah. Join us next time. Until then, cheers everyone.

The Classics And The Jokes, The House Cars, Abandoning Tech And Customers | Episode 1,019

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