Sports
Ultimate Playoff Guide Part 5 Ep. 8
In Episode 8 of the Ultimate Playoff Guide, hosts Mike Klein and Jake Worm dive into the thrilling NBA Finals, discussing the drama surrounding the series, player dynamics, and the impact of social me...
Ultimate Playoff Guide Part 5 Ep. 8
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Interactive Transcript
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Welcome all to episode 8 of the NBA podcast that has yet to be named.
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We are Recon Sports.
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My name is Mike Klein.
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I am your host alongside Jake Worm.
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Jake, what's happening?
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What's going on, dude?
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NBA Finals.
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We're here.
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We're two games in.
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I actually forgot how much drama comes with a final series, man.
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The casuals are now coming out of the woodworks.
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Thank you, Dreymon, for about 50% of this drama.
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Like Paul Revere just.
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The casuals are coming out.
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No, the diehards are also making their points.
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They're reacting in a lot of different ways as well.
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A lot of shit's going on.
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There's always going to be major topics at discussion in any series, but especially a championship
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series.
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Aficiating has been a big one already.
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That's always going to be a topic of discussion.
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Then there's more stuff, too, with players are saying, and coaches are saying, in the press
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conference dialogue, social media is also a big way for players to say what's on their
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mind and fans to react.
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But then also player podcasts are now a thing.
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Dreymon, Iggy's got one.
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The Warriors just seems like giving away their game plan.
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The Golden State Podcast is the name I heard.
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Yeah, it's just another way for fans like us to just see more content and react to it.
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There's so much to digest now.
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Honestly, I find it interesting how much we get, especially in the NBA.
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Like you said, with Dreymon and Iggy's podcast, it's very different from other sports I
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feel.
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I could be wrong there, but I feel like with the NBA, that's kind of a special thing
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there where the players are so open about what seems like everything.
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Yeah, I mean, it seems like that.
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It's been like that forever.
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You always see the NBA players face.
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You're up close and personal.
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It's an indoor game.
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There's no helmets.
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That's always been a thing.
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But yeah, I think any championship series gets heightened.
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You come NFL, M-O-B.
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You're going to see these players.
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But yeah, especially NBA.
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Like I said, Dreymon's out here on his own podcast immediately after the game.
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Right.
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It's nuts.
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I mean, look at ESPN 2.
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They got CG McCallum.
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After he loses a playoff series, he's out on ESPN talking his thing.
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Going at Stephen A. him and JJ.
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Yeah, bro.
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JJ's doing it.
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And Pat Bev, geez.
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I'm seeing too much of Pat Bev, bro.
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You know, Pat Bev, don't want him in the media.
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I don't want him talking on my TV stream.
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That's really what it is.
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But now everyone's got a voice now, especially in the NBA, for sure.
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Yeah, there is.
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And to kind of get into the pod here, I'm just going to give you a quick preview of what
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we're going to talk about today.
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We're going to get into the NBA conference finals, kind of a recap review type deal here.
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It's going to be a little bit shorter than our usual because there is just so much to
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talk about in the finals, especially this year.
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And once we do get into the finals, you know, there's a lot to talk about about injuries,
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like you said, refereeing the contrast between game one and game two.
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And then we'll close out the pod.
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So let us get into the conference finals here.
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I'm going to start off out west with the Warriors Madrigues Golden State in five.
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They're advancing to their sixth finals in eight years, which is absolutely incredible.
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Yeah.
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And people thought that this dynasty was going to die after KD left.
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And we see what we are now.
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Yeah, man, full-fledged dynasty up there with the likes of Goldster, San Antonio Spurs,
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the Bulls of the 90s.
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I didn't even say Lakers of the 80s and it Celtics, why not?
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I mean, we're pushing that even with Loss of KD, it's proving to be, you know, it doesn't
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really matter.
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They're going to free up with their core of clay, stuff and drain on.
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And, yeah, full-fledged dynasty in there here.
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Just a spectacular organization, you know, in terms of we got our guys, we developed
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them.
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We had some luck, but you need some luck along the way.
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And we see how much of their, you know, they're reaping the benefits of all their hard
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work.
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And there's even now reports of rival GMs getting frustrated with the salary cap and how
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the warriors are able to keep their core together.
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And it's like, to me, can you really, is that something to be mad about?
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I feel like it's not necessarily like a rational thing to be mad about.
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Maybe it is, but.
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No, they're good.
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There's always got to be some sort of salary cap manipulation, you know, how you want
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to build your team.
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I think even people getting mad at their ability to pull Wiggins.
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I think they're smart.
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They got Wiggins when he was down in the dumps, you know what I'm saying?
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Obviously he's a first overall pick, so that he's going to be paid, you know, a little
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bit more than usual, but guess what?
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His lottery went down and you could get him for an affordable gold stay-wear or your
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price.
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So, sorry.
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Yeah.
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And it's like, there's the market, you know, argument that you can make where it's their
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market and their ownership make it so that it's easier for them.
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Well, I feel like that's not something you can blame them about.
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If you're going to own a team, you got to be ready to spend to win a championship if
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that's your goal.
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That's true.
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And they also do well in draft.
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I mean, they draft it.
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That's true.
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They drafted Jordan Pull, who's becoming an 18-20 point score for them off the bench.
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I mean, look at the lower part of their bench.
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They've got James Weisman.
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They finessed the league out of that one year where they could get a little top pick.
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And when that draft for real.
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And Kaminga is a low-beerling in minutes, low-guaranteed depth chart.
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So, yeah, man, they just strategically played the draft well, built correctly, built around
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their core.
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And they're here again.
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They're here again.
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And I thought, I personally thought Luka would knock them off.
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That was the dumbest thing.
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I think I've said since we're starting this podcast.
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But no, they're here.
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Yeah, the Warriors, they're back.
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And that's something that we all have to deal with.
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And I think I think the Moody was Moody and Kaminga were in the same draft.
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Not the Weisman one, I'm pretty sure.
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Anyway.
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But I think that's also an interesting point about the finals this year compared to some
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other years is these are homegrown teams.
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That's right.
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You look at both teams and you see Dremond Green, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Cavan Looney,
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Jordan Pull, Moses Moody, Kaminga, Weisman.
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Like all a lot of these guys were drafted by the team and developed through their organization,
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given the opportunity and look how much that is playing into this finals now and over
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the course of the whole season.
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Right.
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Even Boston too.
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I mean, you look at their roster.
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Tatum, Brown, they got Horford back up, but he's been on the team for years.
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Marcus Smart, everyone doubted him.
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Starting point guard now.
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I think Vans at Oklahoma State.
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That's right.
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I mean, they did get a good midseason trade in Derek White.
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But more guys that they drafted, Pritchard, Williams is there as well.
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The end of their benches and has stacked the Warriors.
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They're dealing with more what look like old school retro self-explairs and they're
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hating on air, Naesan.
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I know I'm hating on Sam Hauser.
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Look how look-cornet is what I'm hating on.
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Really?
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But no, these are, yeah, they homegrown teams they built to the draft and just retain
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players until they were good enough to get to this point.
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So.
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Yeah.
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And that is an interesting point about this finals that I feel like people talk about
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every year when you had the cats going and to some degree but a lesser degree of the
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Mayanee Heat when they went to the finals.
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That's built, but that's bronze doing their building that shit.
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That's like the Lakers.
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Yeah.
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They built their teams and, you know, I should say, bought his Lord.
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Right.
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And fans were, you know, some fans, I should say, certain percentage of fans were upset
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about that.
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You know, they bought their team.
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They bought their ring.
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That's just one way of doing it.
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Another way of doing it and you look at it can still be done in this year.
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You get homegrown.
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It's a little more gratifying when you see a champion, you know, just like the Milwaukee
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Bucks last year.
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Hold up that trophy now and guess what?
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Small market team we built off of player development and just having guys become, reach their
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star potential, you know?
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And not only that, but like the way they did that too.
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You know, Yannis was not a top five pick.
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And so I feel like that, you know, that adds a little bit to it for certain teams.
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But to keep moving on here, Steph Curry won the first ever West Finals Magic Johnson award.
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That's pretty cool.
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Game six, Clay arrived at game early and looking on the Maverick side, Luca Donchick was
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Luca Brunson even played spectacular and very well may have bought him a very, very lucrative
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contract this summer.
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That's true.
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Yeah, no, the Mavericks are happy.
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They're able to get a game.
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They're able to get to the conference finals.
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So early to what feels like, you know, would you say this wasn't an overachieved season for
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them?
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I do.
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Yeah.
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I mean, obviously, this is Luca's first year winning a series.
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So I mean, they will have to pay Brunson if they want to retain him, which I think they
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will.
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He's still small.
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So maybe a team might not want to risk, you know, paying him too much of a bag.
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I think the next maybe keeping their eye on Donovan Mitchell, but that's for another conversation.
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But no, Brunson, the maps will be able to match any sort of offer that Brunson gets.
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So what I expect to retain, I expect them to retain Brunson's that just back up, back
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up Luca and just continue to build on what will be a long Hall of Fame career for Luca.
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And hopefully one of these days you'll, you'll reach your finals like the Warriors.
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On that note, actually, because of the way they mentioned that contract, the way they
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built it, he is unrestricted.
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Oh, okay.
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So that could throw some complications in there, but you imagine that they're going to
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resign him.
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He was a very important piece.
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Yeah.
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And you need more creators than Luca.
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And he was the secondary creator there.
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Yep, unless some team comes out of left field with a bag, we're going to need you to be
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a major ball handler for us.
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Yeah, I could see it happening, but either way, you got to keep building around Luca for
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years to come.
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So they're not too worried.
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Yeah.
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And now going out east, we had a seven game series.
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We had Celtics winning in seven over the Miami Heat.
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That series, to me, was still very interesting.
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There was a lot of blowouts and there was a lot of like, this game happened and then it
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flipped over on the next game, then it flipped the next game.
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And so that kind of upset some people, but there was still a lot going on in this series.
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But I think the main point that people were hitting on and the big topic of discussion,
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the Jimmy Butler shot.
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Does should he have shot that?
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Should he have drove?
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Yes, he should have shot that.
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I'm ending that argument right now.
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Thank you.
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Come on, you're Jimmy Butler.
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You literally had to put the team on your back a whole series.
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You have one shot to win at all.
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Maybe you didn't set your feet enough.
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Maybe you jumped a little too far instead of vertical.
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But that is a shot you got to take.
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I mean, everyone, you live for shots like that.
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I trust a guy like Jimmy Butler to at least give you a chance to win the game.
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That's a shot you got to take.
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Other than that, this series sucked.
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If you ask me, I hated watching the games.
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It was brutal watch at all times.
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It was a blowout, like you said.
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And yeah, the Celtics got it done just because simply, I guess, Larry didn't make his
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weight cut.
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I guess he didn't make the body fat percentage.
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You could possibly relate it to that.
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Tyler Hero is a big thing I want to touch on.
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The loss of him is major.
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He has to be a starter.
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He thinks he's proven himself to be a starter next year, which I agree with.
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But yeah, he's showing that how much value he has without him.
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They really kind of create much offense in the half court, especially.
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But the heat will always re-up.
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They have young guys and they have in BAM.
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They have Jimmy to be their star guy who's proven to get it done in the playoffs.
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They'll be back next year.
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And I mean, there's hints at MBE coming.
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Not going to happen.
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No way Philly gives that up.
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But I think they'll bring in another guy next year.
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And I think they'll be in a very similar spot.
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Yeah.
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In that little presser that Riley did, he did mention that they're looking to improve, obviously.
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But, you know, there's some things there to kind of like keep watch for.
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Do they keep Hero?
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Most likely.
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Do they look to get a Donovan Mitchell?
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Do they look somewhere else to grab someone?
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Yeah.
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There's a...
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It's going to be interesting to keep tabs on that.
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I have a pretty ugly stat here from the series.
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The Miami Heat for the Seven Came Series average, 99.7 points to the Celtics 105.
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You know, when you have two defenses of this level, you expect something like that.
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But, you know, one props to Boston for keeping Miami under 100.
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That's pretty remarkable in a conference finals.
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And while we have hit on at least on this pod, the Miami Heat have court struggles.
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And just some of the offensive struggles in general, which there's many different reasons for that.
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But...
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No, the heat...
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They're always going to be around.
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They're always going to stick around.
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They're like the Steelers of the NFL.
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They're like a group...
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I have to, you know.
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They're like a girl you just can't shake off.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Maybe she's too cool every time you go out together.
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She's too funny, you know.
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But maybe she doesn't...
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She's got a little family history out of her.
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She doesn't find her way to become the actual girlfriend.
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But the heat will always stick around.
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Always be a force.
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You're in and you're out.
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Yeah, just...
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Yeah.
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Another well-run organization that knows how to build a team.
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And when they have it down here, you can bet your sweet ass.
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They're going to be back in a year, too.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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Other than that, I believe that's my thoughts for the series.
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Lots to look forward to for the heat.
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They're going to be an interesting team.
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Is it time to get to the finals?
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That's freaking go, buddy.
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All right.
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So as of the recording of this podcast,
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Games 1 and 2 have been completed.
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It is 1-1 currently.
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They were 1-1 in the regular season.
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Now, there wasn't, to me, at least, a whole lot to take from those regular season games.
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In the Warriors' loss, Steph only played, I think about 14 minutes.
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Clay was extremely off.
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And he wasn't in the first game, I believe.
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But the teams look very different from the regular season.
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So it was like, you almost don't know what you're getting in this series.
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And now we see Games 1 and 2 done two completely different games almost.
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Yeah, even after the two games that we've seen so far in the finals,
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I mean, you really don't know what you're going to get out of a game three.
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And with that said, let's just kind of bounce around from Games 1 and 2 and kind of just think about and talk about what happened there.
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So Game 1, Jason Tatum's off.
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But I believe sets an NBA finals debut record of 13 assists,
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which was absolutely huge for that team and a huge reason why they did win that game.
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I love watching Tatum play make.
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I think he's such a hooper.
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He's just as good a passing if he just sets his mind to it.
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Usually, you know, Tatum, your best shot is a Jason Tatum shot.
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So they rely on his shot making.
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But when he is able to draw defenses in and the game plan is to stop him,
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that guy can play make.
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He's not good of a uper.
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He is.
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And what for me, my concerns for him are there's times where
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he can be the biggest victim of this of the team, but of the ball sticking.
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And we look at which we hit on this on our Boston Celtics pod,
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which you go back and listen to.
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We predicted this man.
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We knew how good this team was back then.
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We knew the Celtics, you know, when they made that turn on the new year,
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they looked like a completely different team.
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And in Game 1, you saw that.
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Come game two, things are looking a little bit different.
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The ball movement wasn't quite the same.
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And when that happens, it becomes a lot of Japs that Japs that size that three.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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I mean, Game 1, like you said, the playmaking of Tatum was huge,
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but also just the role player stepping up in the scoring column.
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Absolutely.
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Hoorford, I think, was the MVP of the game.
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Six of eight from three from Hoorford.
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Five of eight for white.
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Four of seven from smart.
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Yep.
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I mean, when you shoot 51% from three as a team,
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that's extremely hard to beat.
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I know.
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Yeah. And that's what you want to see.
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When you're able to free up the ball and you find Hoorford after switches.
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And he gets wide open shots after Tatum driving in and kicking,
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and then he keeps swinging.
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That's what happens.
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And I trust every single player on this Boston team,
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usually on the court, besides maybe Rob Williams,
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you know, just catches lobs and whatnot.
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But I trust most guys on that court to be able to score the ball.
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I trust and be able to make the right pass and put the ball on the floor.
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I generally do trust all these guys.
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So when that ball is sticking, it just doesn't play in their favor.
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And they are at their best with making those quick decisions
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with that sun's like mindset of, you know,
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not quite to the limit of the decisions and 0.5 seconds or less.
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But they, you know, you get the ball and you move with purpose.
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You get it, you pump fake and then you drive.
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That's right.
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And then you kick.
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And they just kept doing that and moving.
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And then in game two, especially to me,
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at least in that third quarter,
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you didn't exactly see that.
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And the third quarter looked the way I did.
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I believe it was 35 to 14 in that game two, third quarter,
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and favor of the Warriors.
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And just the throw is out there.
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The Jordan pull run in like the last minute and a half.
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To me, it feels like that was like a statement.
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Because, you know, up until that point,
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Paul maybe wasn't, he wasn't playing up to his standards.
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And you really saw him get into his confidence there.
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Yeah.
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Where he's, you know, just putting the moves on people
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and then pulling up from three.
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And then that final shot to beat the buzzer in the third quarter
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where it was damn near half court.
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I think they had it recorded at 39 feet.
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Yeah.
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Pretty sure it was a little further than that.
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That shit was nasty, bro.
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I couldn't agree more.
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I think Jordan pulled and hasn't really played up to his standard.
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At least recently, I think in the early rounds,
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he was doing just fine.
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But yeah, I know it was a half court shot,
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but I agree.
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I think this is going to give him that Jordan pull confidence
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and swagger that he's played with,
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and that he knows he possesses.
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You know, he's, after you hit that,
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he looks at Steph Curry like, yeah, that's what's up.
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I am that guy.
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I am that guy.
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I am a splash net few, too.
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No, he's like, I'm in the finals as well.
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You know, I'm here.
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I work my ass off to get here.
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I can hit shots.
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So I do expect to see higher production at a pool now.
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You know, I think he's got that edge to him now.
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Like, yeah, once I see one go down, that's it.
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I can play.
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But now, I guess to almost play devil's advocate,
spk_0
how much of that is an absolute positive for the Warriors?
spk_0
Because on the other end,
spk_0
if pool does too much, or, you know, he takes too many shots,
spk_0
or maybe not in the exact flow of the offense,
spk_0
how does that affect that?
spk_0
I know. Yeah, that could be a problem,
spk_0
but I do think he does still have that humility.
spk_0
Like, I'm playing alongside Steph Curry.
spk_0
I was playing at a finals MVP level.
spk_0
I think he sort of will see his role expand in terms of like,
spk_0
all right, if Clay's not hitting, I will need to step up more,
spk_0
which we'll get into, you know, more conversations about Clay.
spk_0
But I think he does have that cognizant ability to just know when he's not on,
spk_0
or what he needs to do, if he needs to play make, he will.
spk_0
If I find he to hit shots, I will.
spk_0
But all I really want to see out of him is just the confidence that he owned,
spk_0
that he possesses to flourish in the finals.
spk_0
Yeah, and if, you know, if people like Green,
spk_0
while in game two, he had a little bit better,
spk_0
but in game one, you know, he's looking at two of 12 for Dream on Green,
spk_0
you're going to need pool if Dream on's off like that.
spk_0
If Wiggins isn't playing like he did in game one,
spk_0
if Clay Thompson continues to play the way he is,
spk_0
and they did get a good amount of, you know,
spk_0
good play out of auto order in that game one as well,
spk_0
even though they did lose.
spk_0
But getting production out of him is good.
spk_0
You need more than just Steph Curry.
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this in past series about this team
spk_0
specifically having individual games at a guys.
spk_0
You know, you get your typical game six clay.
spk_0
I think we will see a Clay Thompson game.
spk_0
Just one.
spk_0
I think that's all you can expect out of Clay right now.
spk_0
I think he's.
spk_0
Yeah, I think you can't rely on Clay Thompson to be Clay Thompson,
spk_0
but you can rely on Clay Thompson to at least step it up for at least one game.
spk_0
You know, don't average 27% from the field on a series, you know.
spk_0
Get those numbers out to about 3537.
spk_0
But still be Clay Thompson and being that threat.
spk_0
So don't you know, you're going to still tell him to keep shooting, right?
spk_0
Yeah, of course.
spk_0
But like I said, you're going to need individual games that have individual players,
spk_0
such as Andrew Wiggins, you know, his ability to create a shot when it's not there.
spk_0
Jordan Poole to step up.
spk_0
I think you want him to be a little bit more consistent now.
spk_0
But you're going to need guys to have individual games alongside steps MVP,
spk_0
finals MVP level game, you know.
spk_0
And as long as Boston continues to throw drop at Steph Curry,
spk_0
he's going to continue to torture.
spk_0
There was a play specifically that's kind of stood out to me.
spk_0
And I think it was tight.
spk_0
I think Tyce was in and keeps him in drop.
spk_0
I know it was pool is pool.
spk_0
They had pool and they ran a pick and roll to the right shoulder.
spk_0
And Tyce is just kind of chilling, like not ready to really contest the shot
spk_0
and they just shot it right over.
spk_0
And you really saw that and I think it was 21 points in the first quarter of game
spk_0
one where they were playing drop against Steph.
spk_0
And he's just cooking you.
spk_0
You can't play back on him, which forces you to play up,
spk_0
which then potentially gives lanes for Curry.
spk_0
Can he get by you?
spk_0
Now that kind of match up is going to be fun to keep tabs on because
spk_0
do they start throwing just straight to it Curry?
spk_0
Do you want him hitting people off that and then they get into that Warriors freestyle offense?
spk_0
It's tough.
spk_0
It's definitely it's always a tough challenge to guard Steph Curry up top.
spk_0
I don't know, pick and roll situation, that's for sure.
spk_0
But I don't know, I think Boston understands that this is a guy who's going to need to be terrific
spk_0
in order to beat them.
spk_0
You know, very similar to Jimmy Butler, maybe not to the extent of Butler needing to drop 47,
spk_0
put the team on his back.
spk_0
But this they need Steph Curry to have that consistent finals MVP play throughout a series
spk_0
if they want to win.
spk_0
And I think Boston understands that.
spk_0
How you attack it, I think you approach it differently each game.
spk_0
I think you can't stay still in one defensive set on Curry.
spk_0
Maybe sometimes you do sink, but it can't be every time.
spk_0
No.
spk_0
You can't let Steph Curry know he's going to have a shot when Dremont sets three illegal screens across.
spk_0
Now since you mentioned that, we might as well get to that.
spk_0
Dremont greens a hell of a football player.
spk_0
And there was a play especially where he goes to set, I guess what's a screen.
spk_0
I guess the argument against it was he said I guess a screen.
spk_0
But he's like walking into people the entire time, but like arms pretty much fully extended,
spk_0
moving guys out of the way, like, you know, being an offensive lineman, three straight guys in a row.
spk_0
And then you know, it's an uncontested Steph Curry three.
spk_0
And that kind of brings us back to the referee point we brought up in the beginning.
spk_0
So we get the chief NBA official talking on the broadcast saying that the referees and this was a great look kind of into the rest mind.
spk_0
And like the way they see the game in which you'll be able to speak to this a little bit better than I can being a lower level ref like you are.
spk_0
So they said that when they know somebody has a technical foul that they are aware of that.
spk_0
And so for the rest of the game, they don't want to throw someone out.
spk_0
Exactly. And so that brings us to a situation where it's well, then now where does the line go?
spk_0
And is it a straight line because obviously in game two, it wasn't.
spk_0
Dream on got a very big leash.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
As as most controversial things are, it was overreacted what he said.
spk_0
I think you said exactly what he said, which was these officials are aware of what's going on.
spk_0
Don't you want that?
spk_0
Don't you want an official to be cognizant of everything that's going on, including if a player does have a technical foul.
spk_0
And you got to realize this, this is still an entertainment sport.
spk_0
This is a professional basketball league, the NBA.
spk_0
You don't in the highest stake situation. This is a finals.
spk_0
With a guy who has a proven record of being this way, you have to be cognizant of a guy with a technical foul if you call one early, which was warranted.
spk_0
You know what I'm saying? If it's there, you call it that being said, you are hyper aware of the game to where you don't want to give a team an advantage over some bullshit.
spk_0
If it's if it's teetering on the edge of a technical, maybe you sort of give him that ability.
spk_0
I'm sorry. Like I know there needs to be a fine line usually.
spk_0
But if it's teetering on the edge of whether it is a technical or not, I think you sort of have to just at least the NBA officials will give him that advantage.
spk_0
Right. Which then kind of gets into the discussion of how fair is that to the opposite team?
spk_0
And I guess the question that becomes should they try to take advantage of that?
spk_0
Yes. I think so. Work in their situation because they have smart who is you know, dream on, ask in the way of this mentality.
spk_0
That's right. And the physicality of the way he plays, you know, defensive player of the year.
spk_0
And he's a very physical player. Yes, he may flop, but everybody does pretty much in the NBA.
spk_0
But you know, there's there's constant contact in almost everything that they do.
spk_0
I think this rule or this concept that we just discussed applies to more than just technical files for dream on green.
spk_0
I think in a situation in a final series, especially at the end of a game or in a dire situation, even a foul call needs to be monitored.
spk_0
You know, you need to be aware of who has this amount of files, who is in the bonus or close to the bonus.
spk_0
What the score is, you know, is this is everything. They're so hyper aware of the situation.
spk_0
You got to make sure if you're going to blow that whistle, you need to blow that whistle.
spk_0
You know, you're going to let guys play until you can't.
spk_0
And I think that's the biggest thing. You're going to let dream on, be dream on until dream on goes too far.
spk_0
And I also find part of this interesting because fans love maybe their fans, maybe they're not,
spk_0
but people love to say that the NBA is soft. They love to make fun of the way the game's officiated.
spk_0
They love to make fun of how friendly the players are nowadays.
spk_0
And then we get situations like this. And then you get, you know, dream on telling Grant Williams, you know, you want to be me.
spk_0
You're not me, which was by the way, we're getting classic all-time moments from this series.
spk_0
He's a bozo. You're getting like the Marcus Mark, uh, Mike Dubclip from Game One, where he's talking about,
spk_0
we can't play the pick and roll like we did in Miami.
spk_0
And it's just like things like that. You know, it's kind of interesting to keep, keep track of and you hear and you know.
spk_0
But, uh, to move on from that, um, well, real quick. I want to say, yeah, no, they love that.
spk_0
They love getting up close and personal. Guess what? Teams are different. Players are different.
spk_0
You approach teams in series different ways. And the NBA loves having players have their own identity, have their own brand.
spk_0
And they build off of that. So when dream on Zach in this way and the Twitter road is losing their minds and social media,
spk_0
uh, it plays into their hands. This is exactly what you want to see out of a league, uh, with superstars.
spk_0
So it's getting a lot, a lot of eyes on the league. That's for sure. You know, it's, it's a controversial topic.
spk_0
But to kind of move on to another aspect of the series.
spk_0
So I kind of want to talk Jaylen Brown for a little bit because this last game, yeah, let's talk about basketball.
spk_0
Yeah, let's talk about who's for a minute.
spk_0
Well, actually, for game one, Jaylen Brown, I thought he played, you know, very well.
spk_0
You know, they needed a shot maker since Tatum was off and Horford was there for him. Brown was there for him.
spk_0
Even smart and white were there for him. And then we get to the next game.
spk_0
And it's like, Brown, he had that run in the first quarter where he's hitting, you know, shot after shot.
spk_0
And then just kind of went silent.
spk_0
Mm-hmm. And Boston is going to need Brown in this series. Absolutely.
spk_0
Yeah, Boston, yeah, I guess you could also say the Warriors as well.
spk_0
They're both teams that sort of ride waves. You know, when you get hot, you get hot.
spk_0
And I think a lot of the time, Jaylen Brown, it seems like leads the charge for a lot of these hot streaks.
spk_0
I think when, especially around the middle part of a game, second quarter, they tend to get hot after Jaylen Brown gets hot, you know.
spk_0
Because Tatum sort of spaces it out throughout the game.
spk_0
But when Jaylen Brown goes on a run, it seems like that team really starts churning.
spk_0
And the more runs you get out of Jaylen Brown, I think the better off they have to have more of these runs.
spk_0
Well, in that game one, that fourth quarter, like, I can't even remember how long it was.
spk_0
But it felt like for like at least half the quarter, everything was ran through Brown.
spk_0
And he's just making good decision after good decision after made shot after made shot.
spk_0
Yeah. Just being the player that Boston needs him to be because to me, Jason Tatum's shot diet kind of calls for games like that game one.
spk_0
He does take a lot of tough shots, a lot of sidesteps, follow-ways, fade-ways.
spk_0
And when the warriors are playing him very physical in the paint, and very physical in general, but especially in the paint,
spk_0
because it seems like they understand this physicality, this trash talk, this everything, the pressure, everything about the moment,
spk_0
I don't want to say it's changing the way the Celtics are playing, but it's certainly affecting them, especially in that game too.
spk_0
And I like to point out just like everybody else has that first play of game too, Drainmont ties up Alhorfer in immediately.
spk_0
You see the defensive intensity that they came out with, and it helped them throughout the game.
spk_0
Yeah. No, it seems like, is it just me or at the start of every Boston series, they do sort of get smacked in the mouth with reality.
spk_0
Like, okay, this is what the series is going to be. But then I'm talking all three series that we've seen so far.
spk_0
Oh, they sort of dominated the nets, but Milwaukee, they sort of got stopped in the face. Okay, it's going to be physical.
spk_0
It's going to be a little more physical than the nets. Even the heat series. Okay, shoot. This is a very physical team too.
spk_0
And now the Golden State Warriors have Drainmont green. They bring him to the table and he's going to be physical as well. But guess what?
spk_0
Boston has something within their organization, something within that locker room. Maybe it's their coach, their new coach who's able to call players out.
spk_0
Maybe say, you know, you're acting like a bitch or is it Marcus smart getting in the huddle.
spk_0
Tonya, okay, we need to be more physical. It seems like they always rise to the occasion after, you know, getting that initial punch to the gut from the other team.
spk_0
Yeah, they they they are a unit off the court. And you can tell because they always come back.
spk_0
They they make their adjustments and they come back and that, you know, they can play very physical, you know, they were very physical with Yannis very, very physical with KD.
spk_0
And so I wonder if they can find ways to utilize that kind of philosophy with Steph Curry to bother him.
spk_0
Kind of like what the calves did in those four years they went against the Warriors. Off ball. They were they were bumping Steph Curry at every point.
spk_0
Every time he went off the screen, they had the big, you know, hey, just give him a little shoulder game, a little hip. Just make sure you make contact.
spk_0
We need to wear down Curry because he is that good.
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, I may be jumping ahead a little bit, but looking at Boston's routes to winning the rest of this series.
spk_0
I have three big things. One is they have to be the better defensive team. And that comes with matching the physicality.
spk_0
Drainman is going to be Drainman and you know how physical he's going to be trying to tie up every loose ball you can find.
spk_0
They have to match that as well as bring going to going back to Jalen Brown, what you were saying.
spk_0
I need Jalen Brown to be the third best player in this series. Period. You know who the top two guys are for each team.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
But Jalen Brown in order for Boston to win, he's got to be that third guy. And that's leading the charges for runs that they have.
spk_0
Bringing that physicality defensively in like that he has, he's got to be that third guy.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And with that said, you know, when you get brown going, when you get Tatum going, especially if you can get both going, that only opens up everybody else.
spk_0
And when you can have Marcus Mark playing as the point guard and opening things up, you know, with the little pick and roll to the pocket pass or to the swing, then that guy's pumping and driving.
spk_0
And that's where you can get the grant Williams and the Pritchard's going hopefully because those guys are playing 15 to 20 plus minutes of games.
spk_0
You need them to not just be good defenders.
spk_0
Yeah, they can't just be standins. They're playing way too much like you said. And that's sort of my final route to winning for Boston is they got to move that damn ball.
spk_0
Ball movement is huge for this Boston team.
spk_0
Yeah. And if you have your Jalen Brown, your Jason Tatum's of the world, cooking in all aspects of the game and bringing that physicality and pushing the envelope with their with their offense, you're going to get those driving kicks.
spk_0
You're going to be able to move that ball and find a grant Williams in the corner. You're going to be able to find a Pritchard to be able to get a pump fake right away, get the guy up and then create more offense from there.
spk_0
That's how the Boston Celtics work. That's how they have got to this point and they need to do that against a really good, really physical Golden State team.
spk_0
Yeah. And you know, giving a quick look at the box score at game two.
spk_0
I'll hope it had four shots total in 27 minutes. Rob Williams only played 14 minutes, which his health is yet again a topic of discussion in this playoffs.
spk_0
And now it's on the grand stage. And it's very meaningful because if Rob Williams isn't in, that means either grant is in or Derek White is in.
spk_0
And so you either, you know, you're going very small or you have, you know, you got to try to find a way to get Williams going because you can get him going like that game seven of the Miami series.
spk_0
Or it can look like this game to where it's grant Williams 20 minutes, two of two.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And, you know, he had one three point attempt.
spk_0
And so you got to find ways to get him and Horford shots. And so that's going to be getting past that first line of defense, getting a pass, the point of attack and getting the Warriors in rotation.
spk_0
The Warriors are pretty good at, you know, Dremon Green is flying around the court. Wiggins is athletic enough. He's flying around the court.
spk_0
And you got to find ways to break down this defense. You got to find a weak point.
spk_0
There is. I do think, like you said, if you're able to move him, I do think there's ways to get that Warriors defense in the best possible matchup scenario to score on them.
spk_0
Whether it be Looney, who though he has played solid on both ends, you can, you can get him mismatched with him.
spk_0
You get curry, though he's played solid and moved around and then been flying around on defense, getting involved in the passing game and whatnot.
spk_0
And the passing lanes, I should say.
spk_0
There's ways to pull him out and get him in vulnerable situations. So like you said, if you're able to move that ball around, you can, you can find the best scenario to get the best shot.
spk_0
Each possession. You're talking about two way step.
spk_0
But no, he kind of hit on that a little bit. Steph Curry's defense has improved tremendously.
spk_0
And in that last game, especially, he had a lot of deflections. He was playing very, very good defense against some of the smaller guards on Boston.
spk_0
And just doing his job, but doing that alongside of 29 points and 5 of 12 from 3.
spk_0
And when he's not turning the ball over with these careless turns, you have to force the Warriors into mistakes because if they're not throwing those careless passes, then, you know, it's tough to beat them.
spk_0
And they're a very solid team top to bottom. And now that they have Gary Payton, the heck, it just makes it that much harder because it's another element that you now have to watch for.
spk_0
Yeah, and there's such a good team.
spk_0
Just from top to bottom, it's proven in their third quarters. I know we touched on it.
spk_0
It's a blessing and a curse to have a team that just has these third quarter snaps because though they've lost a majority of the quarters, they just snap in those third quarters.
spk_0
And that's major for them. But it terrifies me as a guy who predicted the Warriors to win this series.
spk_0
You know, you can't rely on single quarters each game. You know, even the heat last last series, they started snapping in third quarters of the first part of the series as well.
spk_0
Now the series goes over to Boston. Are they able to get that energy boost? I don't know.
spk_0
Yeah, and that is going to be interesting watch on many levels on game three and on Wednesday because one, how does the dream on situation play out in Boston?
spk_0
And are the Warriors if they are relying on this third quarter run that is just inevitable, I guess, is that enough because, you know, while the offense is good enough to hum through the first half to get you, you know, 45, 50 points.
spk_0
Does that mean Boston has to be absolutely locked in and they have to be a spectacular offense?
spk_0
It's kind of difficult, you know, the Warriors, like you said, they're very strong top to bottom. They have a lot of good defenders.
spk_0
You know, pool is a point that you can attack, but if he's on, that makes it a lot harder to answer. If he's coming at you, hitting three, he's coming at you, getting to the rim.
spk_0
Yeah, looking at the Warriors routes to winning now, that is a big one that I have. Not just Jordan pool, but like I said, just having big games out of one or two individual players.
spk_0
Jordan pool. Hopefully, like I said, getting that swagger back, you know, I'm a splash net few. I'm here. I can do my thing too alongside Steph.
spk_0
Do you have any other sort of routes to winning for the Warriors here?
spk_0
So I kind of have like an unorthodox one because you don't expect this, but if the Warriors get this, it's so much easier.
spk_0
But, you know, Cavan Looney, six of six in game two.
spk_0
It's things like that. You're finding those little dump ins just for a simple dunk, but it's good offense, it's easy offense.
spk_0
And that's what they have to create. If you can find ways to get Looney and Green, at least just ten points each.
spk_0
And then Wiggins and Clay are obviously going to give you at least ten.
spk_0
That's making Steph Curry's job that much easier. And so at that point, only really maybe one, two guys have to pop outside of that.
spk_0
And it doesn't have to be a three, four, five guys giving you a lot of points. You can have Steph go for 30 plus.
spk_0
And then just everybody else give you ten, twelve, fifteen.
spk_0
And that's the ball movement. And the Warriors are spectacular at that. And Dremon is the head of that.
spk_0
You let him just sit there and read a defense. He's going to tear you apart. You can't let him get into that facilitating mode where he's sitting at the top of the three point line.
spk_0
Just firing rockets all over the course, adding his guys. He just sits there and telegraphs passes and they still seems like can't do anything about it, which is crazy.
spk_0
He always fires the ball in with so much speed and he's such a smart decision maker that you almost can't allow that.
spk_0
You almost like you got to find ways to force Green to be a scorer if you're Boston.
spk_0
And then for the Warriors, if you can get Dremon to score ten plus points, that's opening up his playmaking.
spk_0
And that's opening up, hopefully Clay Thompson can wake up because he's been asleep in the series offensively.
spk_0
Yeah, Dremon. I don't know if this is a route to winning, but we're just an X factor. I think he is the basic X factor for them still.
spk_0
I think, like you said, if they're able to get easy buckets from him, but still not take that many shots, that will be huge because you know he's going to bring defensively and passing the ball.
spk_0
So if you're able to get those easy buckets with him, still only shooting five to six shots max, that will be major.
spk_0
But also still staying on Dremon. I still want him to be that force. I want Dremon to be Dremon until Dremons enough.
spk_0
Dremons too much.
spk_0
Be Dremon. And what's kind of funny about that is I noticed this every single year, every team that goes into a series against the Warriors, it's like they discover a new reason to hate Dremon.
spk_0
And it's hilarious because this guy's been like this, his whole NBA career. He's always been the guy to stir the pot, to get guys going.
spk_0
He's going to try to get you inside your own head and you have to be you have to be aware of that.
spk_0
Yeah, Dremon. Keep being you. A lot of people are giving you slack. A lot of a lot of flack.
spk_0
No, even our friends are just like, screw Dremon. Hey, Dremon. We're from Ohio. So we've got the whole Cleveland Cavalier Golden Stay Warrior in our history.
spk_0
So I don't know. Dremon is he's a huge part of winning. You look at guys like Dennis Rodman of years past. You look just you need those guys. You need them. You need them.
spk_0
They're not they're not going to be a superstar in terms of scoring, but it's everything else that they do that's so significant to your team.
spk_0
You love and you love and you love to hate him. I should say. And he's going to run his mouth. He's going to bring that intensity.
spk_0
But he's a Golden Stay Warriors legend and his number is going to be retired whether you like it or not. It's a classic saying, but you love to play with them.
spk_0
Yeah, hate to play against them. But it's so true. And even with March of smart too, that those type of players and they're, you know, in most cases, the heart and soul of your team.
spk_0
When they play with so much passion and so much energy, it picks up everybody else when they make a spectacular play.
spk_0
Absolutely. So as for a personal X factor though, for me, for Boston, my thing is, you know, Tatum is going to give you good production in one way or another.
spk_0
Whether it's the game one playmaking, whether it's the game to shot making.
spk_0
What you need is your Jaylen Brown al-Horfer, but I would say Jaylen Brown has to be able to be efficient, create his own shots and not let the dream on antics, you know, bother him and get into his head.
spk_0
You got to be physical back. You got to give it back to him. You got to be able to create your own offense because Jason Tatum can't do it all. And to me, you can't solely rely on March of smart to be your point guard, even though he's improved every single year, but this year, especially he's been a tremendous playmaker.
spk_0
But Jaylen Brown has got to be that guy this series. And for the Warriors, you know, I kind of lean different ways, but, you know, like you said, Clay Thompson's going to wake up for maybe a game, maybe two.
spk_0
We can hope. And I do imagine he will, you know, it's super hard to imagine that he goes one of eight in another game, but I guess it's very well possible.
spk_0
You know, he didn't play in what, two years.
spk_0
Yep, you can't rely on Clay Thompson this series. Unfortunately, it's a sad reality, but you're just going to take anything you can get from him and still tell him to shoot, you know, shoot or shoot.
spk_0
Yeah, you have that green light still. Yeah, you can't once he starts passing up those shots is when that offense is going to start hitting walls. And so you still need him to take the shots, but I would say it almost feels crazy to say, but Wiggins is almost my ex factor for the Warriors, because obviously, you know, you're getting from Curry.
spk_0
You know, defensively, we're getting from Drain on in his playmaking.
spk_0
Wiggins has to be able to just be that that off ball guy that is just always in the right spot, you know, catching the labs on the fast break.
spk_0
I want to see this guy. It's like when he drives the rim at times, he doesn't look to just put you on an absolute poster when he has absolutely the athletic ability to do so.
spk_0
Yeah, man, keep doing thing about all that movement they got and how much focus those guys up top get. Bro, you hit some backdoor cuts on them, Wiggins, you're going to get some easy to hand dunks at the rim.
spk_0
Yeah, and with all the attention that their off ball movement gets, it should be able to find ways to open that up.
spk_0
And he's shooting just a little bit over 40% from three in the series. And that's going to be huge because if you can continue finding Wiggins wide open,
spk_0
you already know like I've been continuing saying it's going to open up things for other people if you can get certain guys going, but especially to me, Wiggins, he has the skill to be able to average 20 points in the series.
spk_0
And I want to see it, you know, he was a number one overall pick. He was almost on the calves.
spk_0
And so Wiggins is very important for me in this series. I see him being a significant part of the later parts of this series.
spk_0
Yeah, for sure. When when shit starts getting real, when each possession started some matter, you're going to want that length and athleticism and shot of making abilities.
spk_0
Right. Right. Alongside obviously your playmakers.
spk_0
All right. Do you have any last thoughts about this series about anything you feel is significant?
spk_0
I think that generally covers it. I mean, I'm looking forward to game three in terms of what what changes each team and the officials are going to make.
spk_0
I think just like teams and players make adjustments, I think coach or officials after each game are looking at games or you know what what do we do wrong here?
spk_0
What do we need to do next game to control the game? This way, make sure it doesn't get out of hand.
spk_0
I think that we might get a weirdly officiated game in game three.
spk_0
But yeah, alongside players and teams adjustments, I think I think officiating is still going to be a big thing moving forward into the series.
spk_0
My final thoughts on the series is we've now seen two opposite games pretty much.
spk_0
What can you expect to see after that?
spk_0
It's hard to say, but I'm imagining some of the adjustments that you got to find, you know, it's easy to say, but you got to find ways to slow down Steph Curry.
spk_0
But the problem with that is he can be a very good playmaker and he's good at passing out of those traps.
spk_0
And so I don't know if necessarily you want to just throw a bunch of traps at him and then now you're making the likes of Dremel Dremel and a short role decision maker, which he can very well do.
spk_0
And if they're breaking down your defense like that and putting in your rotation, you're making your life very hard.
spk_0
Yeah, we're talking about two guys that are very comfortable with the ball at all times.
spk_0
I'm just even Curry and double, he'll just run you around, take your hip and create, find the best pass, you know.
spk_0
So I think strategically how you, you don't, you throw different things throughout the game without the series at him.
spk_0
You can't just stick to one, you can't just stick to something that he can just get around, you know, just give him new looks at all times.
spk_0
Yeah, I'm expecting different looks, you know, quarter to quarter almost played a play, but you know, every game is bound to look a little bit different.
spk_0
And especially with, you know, E-May has been doing a fantastic job, this playoffs, especially defensively.
spk_0
He's done such a good job of just giving different looks, but like finding what works for his team.
spk_0
And you know, when you have the defensive personality that he does, it gives you like that, that ability to be able to play these different schemes and put these different guys in different places.
spk_0
You know, Derek Whitekin is no slouch on defense, Grant Williams. I feel like in this series, Grant on these, the defensive side is going to be extremely important, especially Rob Williams continues to have these injury problems.
spk_0
Yeah, and I love E-May, E-Doka, his ability to hold his players accountable.
spk_0
There's clearly so much trust in him within the locker room to just understand what he sees.
spk_0
And really just hold his players accountable on both ends of the court. If you're not playing tough enough, he's going to call you out.
spk_0
If you're not shooting the shots, he wants you to take or you're not making the right pass, he's going to, he might pull you.
spk_0
So, I don't know, I like both locker rooms. I like both teams on both ends, really. So this is going to be a really fun series the rest of the way.
spk_0
Yeah, the Warriors play with so much swagger and they got to continue to do so.
spk_0
Now, to end the pod, let's get into some quick predictions. We put these out on Twitter. I have Golden State in seven. Jake has Golden State in six.
spk_0
Do we want to make any changes there?
spk_0
Now that we're being presented with these first two games, I don't think we can, Julie. But do you have any buyers or more sector single in state in seven?
spk_0
You know, it's weird. After game one, I'm like, yeah, I'm in on the idea of seven and then game two happened and I'm like, what they found that worked seems to me at least, you know,
spk_0
that could transfer on to those later games, you know.
spk_0
I tweeted this out during the series, the interior passing of the Warriors was incredible. And that's what stood out to me.
spk_0
Oh yeah. The amount of just easy dunks and duck ins that they could decide.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
And so, as for remorse, no, I think I'm still sticking with Warriors in seven. The Celtics are very good at executing their adjustments.
spk_0
They have great personnel. They have fighters. They have shot makers. If they can get back to that ball movement, then this series is going to continue to be as great as it has so far.
spk_0
Yeah, I hope we get closer games now. I hope we, the rest of the way we get teams both teams sort of finding out what works, what doesn't.
spk_0
I think it will ultimately come down to shot making too. I do think both these teams aren't afraid to throw it up.
spk_0
And if the defense gets more physical, it might come down to make some misses. So we'll see.
spk_0
To make them asleep. Are you any thoughts on your insects? We're sticking with it. Any other.
spk_0
I'm sticking with it. I think mainly because of a dream on being dream on in the confidence of Jordan pool.
spk_0
Hopefully being brought back like like you used to. And then also just Steph becoming and earning his first finals MVP, which is a wild, wild way.
spk_0
I mean, it's not considering if you got if you break it down the Iggy defense earned him that. And I think Kevin Durant was Kevin Durant.
spk_0
But I think Steph is on a mission right now. I think he's going to be the most consistent player this series.
spk_0
I think he's going to keep it up. And I think he's playing at a level to get him that finals MVP that he's been missing.
spk_0
So I'm going to stick with them in six. I think they like you said they found something.
spk_0
Yeah, they just have too many guys from top to bottom. I think this is going to be the champion. This championship number four for those guys.
spk_0
Yeah, the the warriors found a lot in that second game. And my questions for the Celtics are outing my questions for the warriors.
spk_0
Good. I still feel like this is going to be an entertaining series. I still feel like it's going to go a long way with that said.
spk_0
Thank you for listening. And if you like what you heard, you can support us by giving us a five star review of the show wherever you listen.
spk_0
You can find us on Twitter at Recon SportsPod where we will post all updates and information regarding our show.
spk_0
Tell the friend about us. We look forward to coming back to you after the conclusion of the finals to talk the final game.
spk_0
However many there will be until then enjoy the series. And here's to an entertaining more.
spk_0
You