Technology
What, Why, and How
In this inaugural episode of 'Notes from the Midwest,' hosts Caitlin and Nick introduce themselves and share their motivations for starting the podcast. They explore the importance of foster...
What, Why, and How
Technology •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hey, I'm Caitlin.
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And I'm Nick.
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We're two friends who grew up in different parts of the Midwest.
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Our values of community, connection, and love have brought us together in hopes of cultivating
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a Midwest where people can see themselves growing, learning, and living.
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We are dreamers, educators, and parents.
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In times such as these, where there's a heightened threat to safety and basic human rights,
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we hope notes from the Midwest can be a space that fosters critical conversation and connection.
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We're so glad you're here.
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Hey Caitlin, guess what?
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What?
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We are recording our first episode.
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We've been talking about this for a long time.
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That's what I was going to say.
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How long have we been talking about this?
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Um, at least six months.
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I was going to say it was, it might have been last year.
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It might have been last year.
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But for those listening, the two people listening right now, we are so grateful how good of, you know, good, your early adopters of this great podcast.
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Right.
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Because it's only going to get better from here.
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So we're grateful for this.
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How are you doing?
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Or it won't.
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And you heard us at our best.
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And it was all downhill after that.
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Right.
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Some people peak in middle school.
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I did not.
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I barely had friends in middle school.
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If you're listening from Milwaukee, I wish you had been my friend that hurt.
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So we are from the Midwest.
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This is notes from the Midwest.
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As we mentioned in the intro, you know, we're trying to have a conversation here between two friends who grew up in different areas of the Midwest.
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And you'll get to know us more.
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But I think the big part of this first episode is to just try to like talk a little more about how we got here.
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And it's been quite a journey.
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And I have notes.
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Yes.
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So if someone's going to be prepared, if you're listening, it's going to be Caitlin.
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I might what you would call focused on being present.
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And Caitlin's focused on being prepared.
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Adrian Marie Brown wrote less prep more presence.
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And I listened to that.
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Yeah.
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The sea.
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I have to write things down because I can't just pull quotes out of like.
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Well, I'm not pulling quotes.
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And who knows where.
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But I am.
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But I also think it's a little bit of both, obviously.
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Yeah.
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And so that's why we make a good team.
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And I'm just really excited to part of this was just an opportunity to have more conversations.
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Because I think both of our backgrounds in education, learning our careers, we get to have these conversations sometimes.
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But sometimes we don't.
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We do it in more of a teaching posture as opposed to a collegial posture.
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And so like I think this actually allows us for more mutuality.
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Yeah.
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I think too, like our level of preparedness is just correct me if this is not right.
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But it's just our executive dysfunctioning like showing up in different ways, you know.
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Absolutely.
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I am.
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I, because we both execute very well.
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It's just some of us are when we're stressed, do better with taking notes and like really laying it out.
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And some are like, I'm just going to focus.
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Okay.
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I'm going to go in.
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Cheap from the hip.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So why did you say, hey, we should do a podcast.
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I did not say that.
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Okay.
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So we're off to a great start.
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My memory was that I might have had the idea first, but you were an early, I'm in.
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I was like, that sounds cool.
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I think, I think just the types of conversations that we were having felt important.
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And maybe they only feel important to us.
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I don't really know.
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But like it felt like a lot of people were having similar conversations or like looking to have similar conversations.
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And so for me, I was like, cool, let's keep talking about it.
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And also trying to like get as many other people into it as we can.
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So I think for me, it wasn't like, I think people need to just hear us talking.
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I think it was like, how do we make connections outside of just us?
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And so one way to do that might be like inviting people into our conversations.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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We were like, yeah, we were talking about like having a social media presence.
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And if people like send messages in, then they can essentially join the conversation.
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Yeah.
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And I imagine like we share these things with our friends or whatever.
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And then we're having conversations with them, you know, like about this.
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Yeah.
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And I remember now that I'm thinking about it, this was pre pre election, 2024.
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That we started talking about it because we even, because the election really exacerbated the sense of like, oh yeah, we need a venue to talk about this more.
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And really people are hungry for conversation community and really a place to feel their feelings and figure out what life is, how to continue living in a time of great uncertainty and fear and violence.
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And yet a deep sense of hope that something more is possible.
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Yeah. I do remember that because then we got together again after the election.
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And we were like, okay, now it would be a good time, you know.
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Yeah.
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And now it's September.
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It's okay.
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I mean, I feel like in some ways, like some of these things just take time.
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And you want to do it well.
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Mm-hmm.
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And we're both, we both have young kids.
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So I have two kids.
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And Kaylen has two kids.
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And like, you know, it's not like, it's not, it's never easy, you know, like necessarily.
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But I think in some ways as the kids are getting a little bit into school, there is more time to actually like have some breathing room to imagine like, okay, what's, what's an outside of work and parenting project.
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Yeah.
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You know, it's fun.
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And the one of the first things in my notes is talking about like how we make connections outside of here.
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And I didn't even look at my notes when I was answering your question.
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And so who's, who's prepared now or who's, who's present now?
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And that's really good.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Some other things I think that we were talking about just wanting to make sure we're communicating is that we're not authority figures.
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Like we're not trying to speak about this in a authority type of way or as if to say we're the experts on any of this.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, part of what we want to name is that we are just two voices from the Midwest.
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We're very interested in the unique ways that these things are manifesting in the Midwest.
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Because of our lived experiences.
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And you'll hear more about where we grew up and things like that.
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But, but that we by no means are experts on anything but our lived experience.
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And we believe that you, the listener, are also the most expert on your lived experience.
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And that probably leads to one of your other notes that I remember we talked a lot about, which is around recognizing also the privilege that we bring to our particular seat, you know, our particular setting.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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We talked about how we'll probably unintentionally make generalizations at times and how we also just want to be aware of our privileges that we bring.
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And also that was another part of like, can we welcome people to offer feedback to us if they are like, wait, no, you're wrong on this.
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You know, like we want to hear from people if they're like, this is off, you know.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And especially like being aware and mindful of like how our like social location is, as white people is educated middle class, you know, folks like it's like we just don't want this to be seen as a conversation where we're talking kind of like that expert piece.
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Like we are lifelong learners.
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I mean, I think that's part of what made this interesting is that we're hopefully seen as humble enough that like we want to learn from each other and we want to learn with a community that we hope to build with other folks in the Midwest and those outside of the Midwest, who listen to the podcast.
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Yeah. And I think we also talked about just like, like we want to be aware of like not virtue signaling, right?
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Like we want to be held accountable for the things that we say.
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And we want people to know that we're still doing the work too.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So, you know, I mean, I think like we, this will be a learning process.
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Again, I hope this is the rock bottom of our quality of our recordings so that we can only go up from here.
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But I also know that like that's a place where all journeys begin is like a place of having a beginner's mind, having a lot of uncertainty, maybe some fear.
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But I'm really excited because I think the conversations are really needed right now in our society.
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And there's so many people who are not having conversations or they're having more echo chamber conversations.
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And while maybe we agree on a lot of things, like I still think there's a lot of differences that we will be able to interrogate together and hopefully get us moving in a direction that helps us to live with greater kind of integrity.
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Yeah, I think those were kind of the disclaimers.
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And we've talked about setting this up in a like what, why and how segment.
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So, I was thinking we could get into the what?
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Yeah, we thought like kind of these, you know, back in elementary school, like the five, the five W's or the H, which doesn't ever fit.
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It's like, man, is like just in some ways, like just really essential ways to help us figure out what are we talking about?
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Why is it matter and how are we going to integrate what we're learning into how we might live differently or how we might move forward from here.
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So, yeah, you want to maybe just kind of try it out.
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Yeah.
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So, when we were talking about what this was going to look like, we said we should probably cover the what, which is like what inspired what inspired us to make a podcast.
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The why, which is just like more personal information about us and then the how, like what is this going to look like.
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So, I think that we start now by just talking about what inspired us to do this now and at the time what we discussed was a little bit different probably, but it's all pretty similar, I think.
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Yeah, I mean, I think like in some ways there's been a heightened sense of concern about the way the world is functioning.
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And I think for us like growing up post 9-11 or 9-11 and like the economic crisis and then all these different things like it feels like we were already in a place of like uncertainty of like what else does the 21st century have in store for us.
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And then we had the election on top of the pandemic and then everything we've witnessed in 2025, including up to this late summer that has kind of reinforced the need for us to do this podcast.
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Yeah, I think so.
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And we talked a lot about how it can be easy to just be numb or like feel stuck or I think that both of us have talked about how can we make changes.
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How does that come about and it feels like it's going to be more than just having a conversation, but it feels like a good start, you know, to figuring it out.
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Yeah, I mean, I feel like being numb, being stuck or having to spare like it's really easy to not have conversation.
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It's like what's the point, the trash compactor and Star Wars is closing and there's nothing we can do about it.
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And so we either don't have conversations or we live in sort of this like idealized middle class world or you know playing families with our respective kids and partners and like we're just kind of like doing what we do, you know, and in reality that's not any better than just not talking.
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Like like just pretending like what's happening out in the world is not happening.
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Yeah, I think I think a big thing for me to have been thinking about this a little more lately because I do feel like after the election, it was like I just need to, I just am not saying anything because I do feel like what's the point, you know, what is this going to do.
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But I think for me, the community that you can also not just find but like create and having the conversations, you know, like by doing this, I can let someone know we can let someone know like where we're at, what we're thinking.
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And I think a lot of times maybe especially in the Midwest, honestly, probably everywhere.
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It can feel hard like everybody thinks differently than me or you know I'm the only person thinking this way, especially being in a red state, like I think it can be hard to be like who thinks like me.
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And so just letting people know like this is a safe space for you, you know.
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Yeah, yeah, I mean, you want to believe like that there are people around me that I just haven't met yet, you know, who are asking the same questions or feeling some of the same feelings and it's great to have like people from your childhood or someone else that you might still be connected with, but a lot of times our relationships and journeys take us away from those.
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And they also don't always, they can't be everything to us. Just like our families can't be everything at all times. And so I think that's why you know having this conversation hopefully leads to people having conversations with others.
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And then together there's like a shared strength that is found in ourselves and in our communities that were a part of, you know, I remember right after the election, I really started resonating with the image of or an acronym related to a circle.
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And the R, the C and the L in that acronym relates to resilience, courage and love. And I feel like that's those are still very strong words that I hope like we're building for each other.
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And that's a lot of what I hope can come from this podcast too.
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Yeah. And I know we, you know, we talked about like not wanting to be an echo chamber, but, but I think we also want to be a place where especially if people are like, I don't feel like I have people around me who's values align with me, you know, or I feel like one of like not very many people who think this way, if this can be a space where people come and they're like, oh, like thank goodness someone else like cares about me.
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You know, I hope that's a message too that like we can share by doing this is like we really care about especially marginalized people.
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And I guess I just hope that that's really evident in what we do here.
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Yeah, I think there's sometimes like a poo pooing of the preaching to the choir or like, you know, only talking in an echo chamber because it's kind of like at least with the choir imagery.
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It's sort of like, okay, the choir already knows how to sing or whatever, but it's like, I feel like we can sing better, we can sing better together, we can harmonize better.
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And also there's something very powerful to be sung to even if you're a great singer so that even at times when you're in the choir, you still want to pause and listen to the singing that surrounds you and feel held in that love that we can often take for granted.
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So it's kind of like the burnout that comes from social activism or compassion fatigue.
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It's really important to be around other people who are feeling that too.
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So that even if it's the choir or an echo chamber, it's a place where you can also be fed and nourished as well.
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I also think it's like, it seems obvious to say, but like there's power in numbers, right?
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And so if we're talking about like, how can we blow stuff up?
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Like that's going to be easier to do with more people.
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Yeah, and by blow stuff up, we mean dismantle certain systems that are kind of not serving a broad coalition of people who look a lot different and who come from different backgrounds and cultures and things like that.
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I mean, I think part of-
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We don't mean literally.
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Well, I just want to end case anyone was listening.
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That is like red flag.
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What podcast am I listening to?
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But yeah, I mean, yeah, a lot of people feel like a lot of the democratic experiment is needing some serious retooling in order for it to face the exponential changes that have occurred in the last 50 years or 30 years.
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And so that's partially why to know who else is thinking about repairing or building a different kind of society, we can learn tactics together.
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Because then it requires us to do that work in all corners of the Midwest and in all corners of this country and in the world.
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Do you think it's a good time to talk about the why?
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Yeah, the why can get a little bit more into why are we particularly drawn into the work?
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Yeah, I mean, I think for me, I always think about what it means to be a father and raising a generation of two people who are going to be growing up in this world and less about-
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but also just about seeing them and their friends and really concerned about kind of how am I being a part of the solution or the conversation.
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So I think there's a vulnerability that comes with acknowledging this work and knowing that, you know, in many ways I too am numb and stuck and at times despair and that I can't do it all.
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And that's like a big even if your kids think you can. Part of this is the grief work of acknowledging we can't.
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And so we have the kind of adult conversation while we're also maybe for some of us having an intergenerational conversation as well.
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You also talked about like being a white straight male and just like how do I be part of the problem.
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Yeah, I have so much legacy of harm and pain that folks have various identities that I include myself in.
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You know, white straight male cisgender well educated middle upper middle class able bodied.
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I mean, there's so many things, you know, American, you know, the United States citizen.
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I got family in this country for over 400 years almost.
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You know, there's a long legacy of harm that my body has inherited.
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The benefits of not always being the recipient of that harm and the society that we're living in is benefits me for no reason.
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Other than I had I had a longer stick in drawing stick or whatever the imagery is.
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And so, you know, I use the imagery about detoxifying or letting go of those of those privileges knowing I can't fully let them go but but not believing that they're that who I that those are actually benefiting me.
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I have I have nothing to lose is the way I say I have everything to gain because I've only experienced a world where I think I am full.
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But in fact, I have been keeping other people hungry because of the space I take up.
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And so part of me in sort of saying I'd like to, you know, learn new ways of leadership, new ways of being in the world is because I think what I've experienced has been a or what I've been sold as a false bill of goods.
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Is that the phrase and I want to I want to actually experience life more fully and that includes de centering myself in order to bring more space for those on the margins in order to experience our collective liberation.
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I like it.
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I think for me something that's been a focus for me for a lot of my life has been just this for people who I think needed but I don't know that I was I was always having those conversations but I don't know that I was always doing it in a way that was like good or productive or helpful, you know, like I can get like fired up about the things right and which I don't think is a problem.
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But I do think is like, like how can I do this in a way that's more helpful? How can I do this in a way that like helps people to listen and also I had a pretty like humbling conversation when I was in my doc program where I just realized like why am I mad at people for doing the thing that like like I am a white person also right and so like this is also my problem to
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address and I think I'm the one to be having these conversations because do I expect black or brown or native people to be having the conversations to educate other white people, you know, I don't think that that should be anybody else's responsibility.
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And so I started to think about it just in a different way. So I think that that like humbling was good for me I think and I still of course like get it wrong on the time but I want to be more open to having that conversation so that hopefully people will also want to like learn and grow along with me, you know.
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And so I think to something for me that stood out just in the past couple of years is that I lived a lot of my life thinking like how do I make people comfortable, like how do I make people not feel bad or like whatever and a lot of that meant not questioning what was happening around me.
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I was but like not in a way that was like let me like live my life in this way that feels good right and so it's just been in the past couple of years that I've been like I want to really like accept my own queer identity and what that means for me and like how that looks for people and so that's been really important to me too.
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And so I think that goes into this too like how are we having conversations around that and what that looks like. And I think I'm a mom to two white boys and I'm always also thinking like how do I do that in a way that like I think will be good or helpful to them and how do I make sure they are going to be good or helpful to this world, you know.
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Yeah. And also in a way that doesn't make them feel a bunch of guilt about who they are but just an awareness like having an awareness of what that means.
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I love it. I mean I I remember it's kind of like this is a problem that was created by a lot of systems and after citizens united we sort of made systems be like humans like like they're made systems are made out of humans right corporations are made out of humans.
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And so though and a lot of those humans even though it was a very complex system where it's hard to know how did the system fully get into place or or concretized over hundreds of years but this is a system that is going to require those who benefit the most from it to be the ones who help resolve it.
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I remember I don't know if it was Trisha Hershey. Hershey who did the rest as resistance nap ministry work or someone else but I remember reading somewhere where it was like I need to sit this one out and like.
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So I actually don't quote me on that but I about like this is like white folks need to like go and get get our people and like and like have a conversation and really talk through the realities of white supremacy culture and how that how that impacts folks who are not receiving the same kind of benefits in this world.
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And again I think we can get trapped in strong and arguments and all these things we possibly people are listening and are having those initial reactions but but there are certain assumptions that we are not that we are taking for granted that there are there are unfair biases or unfair things that exist in this world that privileges certain identities over others.
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And we'll probably go into some of that unpacking certain things historically or in the present day but this also gets back to the piece of like the echo chamber the choir is exactly where we should be in certain ways.
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Because it's in those spaces that we're realizing these white people clap on the wrong beats in the songs you know one in three or whatever and like there's a whole joke around that in different religious traditions like if not knowing how to keep a beat and stuff so that's the that's the an issue with the choir and so we need to work with our own folks to figure out how do we how do we learn how to sing better and and really how do we learn how to do healing work grief work and also set our soul.
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So set ourselves up to to end generational trauma. Yeah and how do we learn how to listen you know like and that's what I think you and I have had that conversation like we want to amplify voices of people like who don't look like us so we're not saying like we're like the experts in this thing we are just saying like can we please have a conversation you know and can we can we listen to or read what other people have to say.
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That's right yeah so we hope that and that gets a little bit into the how a little while but if you go with going there because I mean how is we do hope how we get there is by resource sharing and being a resource to one another and being community you know and and and recognizing whether you've ever met us in person or you meet people on our socials that like there's a way that we can lift each other up by connecting each other to a book or a different thinker
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or another podcast or a community in a certain area in the Midwest or in the country that are like doing amazing things and it's so connecting people to those resources including spaces that are with more privileged identities or more target identities is part of what we hope to do in order to resource you who are listening and resource ourselves.
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I think like both of us are academics and we probably both also see ourselves as educators and so I think that does not feel right for you.
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That does feel right.
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So I think that like having those resources when we were when we were talking about this ahead of time I was saying like I think having those resources for people feels helpful for me so this isn't just like these are just my words and you should just like listen to me and you know that's it.
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So I definitely think one really important thing for me and how we do this is just by also leaning on the works of other people who know more about this stuff you know than we do and the experiences of other people and offering those resources to people listening I want people listening to feel like if they want to do more work like outside of this they have the ability to do so.
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Yeah I mean I think if we're experts in anything is we're experts in learning how to use Google search and finding things and knowing knowing when I think I think I should double check that idea and really really you know cross reference and stuff so.
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But yeah I mean I think and I also think sometimes there's a trap when when we're in a mode of academic study or what not and that is to to to be moving towards objective truth and again part of what we're trying to deliver here is space for each person in their subjective identity and they're in the truth of who they are and the beauty that they are to come to an understanding for themselves and then to continue to engage in that conversation.
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It's not about conversion towards what does Caitlin think what does Nick think that's what I should think it's more about mutual transformation and lifting each other up through through iterative conversations through each podcast and online as well.
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Yeah yeah that's what earlier you know when I was like like I've been like how to problem with just going along with like how things are supposed to be it's funny because I do feel like I've been pretty like I've been
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like contrary most of my life you know and so I always question it but it's not that I've often done the things for myself but but I definitely think that this will be a place where I like continue to do that like I'm being told this thing like is it true and like can I get behind it and where's the evidence for that thing you know I think critical thinking and that's what I'm telling like my students all the time
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like how are we how can I help you think this through for yourself you know and I see them a lot coming to me like what's the answer how am I what am I supposed to do you know like with this client or how is this supposed to look and I'm like well what do you think and they don't often like that question right because it makes them have to think about it themselves but if you can't do that like I can't be with you all the time you know so how do we get you to to think through this thing.
spk_0
Yeah and I think for me like that is a part of our intro where we talk about critical conversation and connection and those are critical connections as well deeper connections right the critical is an agi-go-go-bitch active for both the conversation and the connection that follows or that's iterated as a part of it right through our conversations we're deepening our connection and through our connection we're open to maybe a little more critical thought and and feeling and vulnerability
spk_0
because that that moves at the at the speed of trust and and some people listening to us may have heard us before and our friends but some are like who are these people and so we anticipate that critical connection critical conversation is going to come differently for all of us just as it does in our workplace in our home lives in our friendship circles and and and such so but we're trying to rebuild a critical conversation landscape in the Midwest you know that's not really good.
spk_0
I mean there are areas obviously where people are having conversation and building beautiful community but generally speaking there's a lack of it because there's so much discord and so much extremes happening right now and again beyond the binary of the left and right in across the matrix of the of the United States or the Midwest that that's leading to the opposite and a real void and when we do that avoidance then we
spk_0
are only for the lesser. It's like you knew that the next thing on my list was that we want to be willing to be vulnerable. I am so far removed from being able to see what's on her list. She is actually not complimenting me. She's actually trying to be silly. No I'm like actually. But actually it's nowhere on the list. Oh okay well she's punking me but no vulnerability is hard. Are you good at phone?
spk_0
vulnerability? No. I can be I think in certain circumstances and others maybe not so I think I think just having my voice like on here alone feels very vulnerable for me which is probably why it's been a year of us talking about doing this and not doing it.
spk_0
It definitely has a confessional quality to it. I mean you I love to think through everything I'm going to say and write it down and edit it before you know I say it. But you didn't write that. No. You just came up with that. That was off the cut. Yeah. But it is but it is vulnerable. Be hitting record watching you know the little sound waves being recorded because you're not sure what's going to happen and but I think part of that
spk_0
also is then how do we hold each other accountable. And how do we hold each other accountable in a dual sense of holding each other to account but also hold each other in care. You know there's a there's a holding that is not just like a punitive constraining you know or restraining but also like a quality of compassion and concern for one another without it being like oh that's okay you know it's okay to be able to do it.
spk_0
Yeah like nice versus kind nice versus kind. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of that Midwest stuff that have to unpack but how do we how do we really get into that vulnerability. I think for me I do over intellectualize some things sometimes I get very wordy as you can probably see by taking up too much space in this opening podcast but you know so sometimes I need to slow down and stop and allow space for feedback.
spk_0
And that includes critique you know and saying well I kind of that Nick but also I think this and that's where again I hope that our conversations beyond the episode you know after the note the after notes or the foot notes or the end notes. Oh that'd be a clever little
spk_0
tie up. Yeah. Is where we can actually then go deeper. Yeah. This is something I say like when people talk about parenting I say all the time that like we are going to mess up like we will mess our children up there's no way around it but like will you be open to hearing from them you know about like how that happened or what that felt like or having that conversation and I think that that's probably true in any relationship ever you know like being willing to hear that.
spk_0
Like what what your impact was or whatever and not taking things so personally and not go to a shame space. Yeah I mean I think that's the biggest thing is when we then get into a space where we shut down we say see I knew numbing was the right things I'm going to go back to that path. Yeah.
spk_0
Or you know why why why try because I'm just going to get shot down and it's like let's build some resilience in ourselves to be able to get tough feedback or to sit with our feelings like the one you expressed when you were in your dissertation studies and you know so I think I totally agree with you it's we are going to mess up and then the question is how do we get up from that how do we rebuild the relationship or move forward after we have done harm in one way or another in the world.
spk_0
And to our including to ourselves I mean that's the thing I think everything we always identify as like interpersonal or group to group kind of conflict and I think there's there's a harm we do to ourselves and and that gets reinforced when we don't actually tend to our our own hurt.
spk_0
Yeah yeah I think part of that too for us is finding a way to be open to conversation from people so figuring out what that looks like you know and hearing from people who are listening who are saying like I don't like this thing that you did you know or I think maybe this thing should be different.
spk_0
Yeah yeah I mean we really do hope like we we're not sure if it's just going to be a group text thread with our friends on it or something but we do hope like people will give us feedback or even say have you thought about talking about this or that I mean so it doesn't all have to be like what it didn't like but like I'd love to hear more about this because that's that's really critical.
spk_0
Yeah I think the only other thing that we haven't really touched on is just like wanting to use humor and lightness.
spk_0
You rang.
spk_0
Oh that's what I bring I bring.
spk_0
Okay I you bring the humor and I bring the lightness.
spk_0
That's right that's right I know I'm like I'm like no we love laughing and we also recognize that laughing can be healing.
spk_0
Laughing at the absurdity you know laughter and crying are very go hand in hand.
spk_0
Nick loves free to laugh at him.
spk_0
Yes I keep her around just to boost my my sense that I'm still funny after all these years with my spouse and children sort of I already sense it they're moving into the I roll stage of my my dad jokes but but also I mean I do think like there's something really refreshing about about laughing and also something that's very like revolutionary of like choosing to laugh in the face of fascism or choosing to laugh.
spk_0
Choosing to find humor in in the absurdity of it all without and so sometimes laughter can come with like a gravitas and not just a lightness it's like I'm making light of the situation it's like sometimes it's like no the only way for me to make sense of how powerful this moment in time is is to look for some lightness you know I mean all this things going on with late night hosts and like what's it called like talk show hosts and stuff and sensor and stuff.
spk_0
I mean it's a very scary time because in some ways that humor brings people into a space of processing really big emotions.
spk_0
Yeah so we think like you can think critically by using humor I think I think there can be like a guilt that can come sometimes with like I'm just like laughing right now when I should be being serious but like if I'm just only serious all the time like what happens you know like how can I be good for other people.
spk_0
Yeah I mean life is about the dynamic the dynamic between sleeping and being awake the dynamic of being alive and knowing that one day we die the dynamic of the comedy and the drama like in the masks that you know the drama drama and comedy masks so I think knowing that you know this too shall pass or there's a time in a place for all things or whatever kind of imagery of of impermanence that we that we live into.
spk_0
It can be a very therapeutic thing and it can also just be not not a thing that pulls us away from reality but allows us to live more deeply in it.
spk_0
Yeah yeah I think it's good and I think leaving people with that like here's our plan you know I think it's good and I think in the future I think we have the conversations in this way knowing like we already let the audience know like here's what's important to do.
spk_0
And to us here's what we plan to do and then in our next episodes we bring like maybe a current event you know or like some specific topic that we want to talk about and we do it in that way and hope that we bring a lightness and also critical thinking around it and also just open it up you know for discussion.
spk_0
Yeah I mean I think yeah I love it and I hope that you know even if you know this is like a podcast falls in the forest and no one's around to listen to it.
spk_0
I'm glad we're having this conversation because we're doing it together as colleagues as friends and we know that it did make a difference you know like to be there that's the starfish.
spk_0
I just blended two things about throwing the name starfish and the water but I think it works still it works I'm going with it.
spk_0
It's my father my father my father would say you know think outside the envelope or push the box.
spk_0
So I clearly have arrived at that stage in life but anyway yeah so we hope people will continue to listen we hope people share this with others we hope people will leave us a comment or something reach out to us so that we can keep this conversation.
spk_0
Going as we continue to kind of live with our notes from the Midwest you know we hope to make you think and we hope to help you to make connection.
spk_0
Well bye.
spk_0
Okay love you bye.